Choice.

That made a lot of sense. I really never thought of it that way. And if the woman gets an abortion anyway? Can the would’ve been father press charges on her, have her tried for murder? It gets so much stickier when TWO people have a say in things.

*applauds* Very true, Timmy.

Oh, it’s never up to a man. Preposterous. I thought Women’s Lib was all about making men and women equals. I guess I was wrong, hm?

I’m so glad you let me read you. You give me faith in the Youth of Today. Yay, Timmy! I’ll always be a fan of yours. Hang in there, guy, and explore the novel World of Women. I don’t even understand them myself, being one for about 46 years. Let nothing deter you.

Urk..ghijkgj…gaaaaacckk…*explodes from trying not to burst out with a thousand angry comments* You don’t need my shit, Timmy. After all, this was a very good entry. I’m just too easily ticked off sometimes. *scampers away before she sticks her foot even farther into her mouth*

The sickening part is that there are females on this planet willing to give birth in order to tie the guy responsible to them legally. They can’t let go, so they use the child as a tool to keep in eternal contact. Any chicks reading my note… don’t get me wrong, irresponsible males should be shot… but responsible guys can get BURNT by irrational women, and that is often overlooked. Good post

^ I love this person.

First, I want to say this was a very thoughtful entry. Usually when we hear about men and abortion, it’s the man complaining about the woman NOT having an abortion when he wanted her to. Very well thought out.Second, my best friend’s brother has custody, and his ex has to pay child support. This is especially unordinary considering that we live in a state where the courts award custody to the

mother 99.9% of the time. He deserved it, though. Wonderful father.My opinion is if the woman has the right to choose whether or not to HAVE the baby, then the fathre should have the right whether or not to pay child support. If not, then he needs to sign away his parental rights and not be a father to that child.Liberal rights goes both ways. Women have rights, so should men.

You make a very good case against casual sex. One person’s “little mistake” is another person’s life. Who SHOULD help pay? I don’t know what kind of family you came from, atomic, diatomic, thermonuclear, but try to think if your father disowned you just because your mother didn’t comply with his wishes to flush you down the sewer. I’m not trying to change your mind. Just explain the rules.

this is a very complicated issue.it’s hard to say what’s right and wrong when so many people have such convictions.all i can say is that if the father really cares what happens to his child, then he should have a say.and if he will not be heard by the mother, and she gets an abortion without his knowledge, then i think he should be able to sue.

when men take more responsibility for birth control and when men’s genitals are ripped in half delivering the li’l bundle o’ joy – then we can talk about these pesky little “men should get to decide” things. 🙂

When men take more responsibility for birth control?! I’ve had girlfriends get pissed off with me for even mentioning that I should remind them to take their tablet ONCE A DAY. That it should be routine. As soon as there is a PROVEN birth control method administered for men, I can guarantee you that 80-90% of men will take it unless of course, they want a child. Don’t start that crap.

Ok here is what i think. I think that abortion is just wrong. If you don’t want the baby and you were careless enough to get pregnent there are plenty of people who want kids and are waiting to adopt..why punish the child for something it had no say over. But on the flip side. I think the guy should have a say in the matter. Because maybe he is ready to be a dad. Go for your rights men!!

And what SOME people fail to recognize is that birth control is NOT 100% effective. You can still get pg by using ANY form(s) of bc…condoms, the pill, depo, ANYTHING! I got pregnant TWICE while being as protected as Fort Knox. Telling someone they were careless DOESN’T cut it, because MAYBE, just MAYBE, they weren’t careless, they WERE responsible, but those little sperms were determined. 😉

I think you missed a few very important points here. Foremost, pregnancy is dangerous to the mother, even today. It used to be a leading cause of death in women, and today even a helthy routine pregnancy and delivery has lasting side-effects (and no, I don’t mean the baby). That aside, there is the responsibility issue, as you pointed out, but missed the crucial bit. Parents are ALWAYS involved.

There is no simply walking away. Psychologically, there is an effect. Ask any parent, and they’ll tell you how expensive a kid is. I have three, and each pay period we try and figure out where the money went, because neither of us spent it on ourselves. The only movies I’ve been to in a decade were children’s movies. If a couple chooses pregnancy, BOTH had better be prepared for the expenses.

A man has no right to choose to be a father, unless the woman ALSO agrees to be a mother. You can’t force pregnancy upon a woman who does not want to have a baby, simpy to satisfy some primal urge to reproduce. Try carrying 100 extra pounds for nine months 24/7, and see if that is a fun whim to indulge in for someone else’s sake. BTW- I’m a father who stays at home and takes care of his children.

I’ve done this since they were born. I’m the one who cleaned the shit off their butts, the one they puked on when they were sick, and the one who gets up to take care of them even when I’d rather sleep in. I’m the one they go to when they’re hurt, and I’m the one they’ll hate when they’re older, but not yet wise enough to know how much I sacrificed for them. Kids are hard work.

Fallen Angel is wrong. There are not PLENTY of people waiting to adopt. There are plenty of unwanted children waiting to be adopted, because people carelessly breed instead of being UNSELFISH and adopting. It seems to be a marvel concept these days for people to not have their own kids, because most people make the mistake of being careless and think that their irresponsibility entitles them…

to parenthood. Having a child isn’t about what someone else wants, it’s about giving the best. And most people can’t, yet most people still carelessly and selfishly breed. I completely agree that a lot of women do get pregnant to trap a man. And men are stupid enough to let it happen, there is such a thing as a condom, it’s pretty effective combined with birth control.

I pay child support. A couple of years ago, my 15 yr old decided he needed to get to know his father before the man dies. (He’s in very bad health.) When he moved in with his father, I called to arrange to pay child support payments. I had to do what was right for my kid.

I know plenty of cases where the father has custody of the child and the mother pays child support. ok, not plenty. Two. but you have raised some good points

*applauds* this is so true!! I’ve always wondered that myself, even though I’m a woman. It’s just not fair to the man! But society doesn’t think that way…. *again applauding*

I see your points and I agree and have debated some of them myself. The truth is though that pregnancy is a nine month process for the woman. Only the woman. The results it has on her body and the risk to her, and the changes and medical care she has to go through isn’t something to be forced on anyone, no matter what. And in month three the guy could say he wants it, find a new girl, and step

completely out by the ninth month. It’s sad and sick but I think the woman’s right to decide, and decide alone can never be violated. She is the one who will be a mother for the rest of her life. Mentally and PYSCICALLY altered by the child she carried. A male will never know any of that. When it comes to babies today… fathers just have too much slack.

Women’s Lib. *shudder* Quite frankly, as far as I’m concerned? Women oppress other women a lot more than men do. They’ve been doing it for centuries. I wish they’d stop. Also, being in a situation where I wish my dad had divorced my mother and somehow gotten custody of myself and my brother… fathers can be just as good parents as mothers can, and should be allowed that. Have a good day!

I was really going to gouge you for this entry. But I’ll just say that you’ve got a few life lessons to learn. And shame on your “all-female” readership for so vehemently agreeing with you. —

As someone who has depended on child support – I definately am glad it exists 😛 And believe it or not, child support from the mom does happen. I know someone personally who is in that situation.

You’re also daft enough to be smart. I know some men who have gotten custody of their children but it takes the mom being messed up.

This is exactly why I make damn sure anyone I sleep with loathes children at least half as much as I do. Woman’s choice.

Very few people consider the effects after an abortion. Most people only consider the factors leading up to it. No one ever says, “Well, the pregnancy has been terminated. What now?” They assume everything is ok. It never is. It has a dramatically painful effect on everyone involved…

In my opinion “Women’s Lib” ends where abortion begins. People should concern themselves with the factors leading up to abortion, rather than seeing abortion as a cure-all. The factor may be rape, calculating individuals, or social taboo. These are the things that need to be addressed not covered by simply getting an abortion because not everyone involved, including both parents, may agree.

Thanks for your note. I was using my sense of humor while writing that entry. Please bring yours with you next time you note me.

I do not beleive it is right to choose to terminate life. I do however believe that if one does not wish to bear children they have the right to prevent pregnancy. There is nothing complicated about baby murder. I am not judgemental of the people who have undergone such a horrific event, because I know most has struggle with pain, guilt and loss, and in fact my heart goes out to them…

hmm, well, I am certently not smart enough to come up with that answer! but, you most definentaly stated this aptly “both sexes kind of suck”

This is where my conflict lies also. The man is always but always cast as the bad guy in such scenarios, but I’m sure there are plenty of men who do want to be fathers and/or accept the responsability of their actions. I once had the issue raised myself. Although it turned out to be a false alarm there was still the moment where we thought she might be pregnant and I wanted to keep it but

she didn’t. Where’s my choice? Even if I offered to raise the child myself and never expect any involvement post carrying to term if she didn’t want to, but that still makes me the villain for wanting her to give birth. There’s no easy answers. This was a thoughtful entry. Cheers.

I know in the case of a friend of mine, where she has lived with both her mother and father separately, only her father was required by law to pay child support. That is very unfair. What I think: Women have the right to control what happens to their bodies. Meaning I am pro-choice for the general public. Pro-life personally. If a woman chooses to carry out an unplanned pregnancy when

the father wanted an abortion, he should decide whether or not he will contribute child support. And how much. Though it’s unfair, a man cannot force a woman to have a child. Seek other means. Surrogate mother? Adoption?

it sucks. ultimately, it is the women’s choice, since it is her body. there is nothing that makes me more upset, however, when i hear of a woman who says, this is how it’s going to be, i am not going to have the baby–when the man wants nothing more than to be involved. it’s unfortunate that most of the time women get custody. even in joint custody situations for years, if someone moves or gets

married, and both parents are fit, it will usually go to the women for custody. i am dealing with it right now as cody (my boyfriend’s son) lives in FL. i miss him like crazy. luckily he is with us off and on this week since he is in town for the holidays. you take care. sounds like i need to catch up.

Your biggest problem is that the law doesn’t agree with you. Most people don’t want to see it this way.

Don’t want a kid? Put on a condom

Hmm. *thinks about that alone*

Nice to see you put so much thought into the entry. Can’t say that I agree with everything, but… a good entry all the same. xx.

My opinion: If the woman wants to terminate it, then that is her choice and the man gets no say (beyond what she’s prepared to discuss) – it’s her body. However, if she wants to keep it, and he says from the outset that he doesn’t, then I don’t see why he should be forced to pay child support etc. (If he says he does, then changes his mind, then he’s a wanker. And should pay support).

Ideally, of course, a compromise should be found. Alternatively, wait until you’re in a stable relationship to start a family, and if you get pregnant before then, then thank allah that legal abortion exists! (but of course it depends on the individual…).

oh boy. I am sure you have gotten plenty of notes about this one! lol But I will add to it. I do see your point on about 99% of this. If the woman wants to have th kid, and the man does not- he can terminate his rights to the kid. So he doesn’t have to pay child support. Same way with the mother, although she still has to have the child… obviously.

its just too bad that if the woman doesn’t want it and the man does, he can’t have a transplant of the baby and have it grow in him

Child support is usually based on how much money both parties make. If the woman makes more than the man and she has custody she will most likely get no child support and if she does it will be very little. It works the same if the man has custody. (I lived at both parents houses back and forth). I definitely believe that the man should have a say and the choice should be agreed upon. EXCEPT in the case of rape and unwanted incest (hey you never know people are weird).