Let’s All Be Adults Here (or not)

hear hear!

Thanks for the clarification – though don’t think it will ever apply to me (lol) must be tough having to be in the “decision” process on this subject.

Sounds fair enough!

How about profile pics? I have seen a few pics where there are naked men with their bits blacked out but you can still see the shape or naked men where the picture cuts just above the groin but you can still see the guy is naked?

Makes sense to me! Your doing a good job DM!

Even R material is inappropriate for the 13-15 age groups here. Be well.

Sounds more than fair

sounds good most my peeps are FO ppl anyway lol we Don’t want our stuff ‘on the front page lmao’

I have always thought this to be a good rule. But I am glad you clarified it for those who dont seem to understand.

The other day I was thinking about how I wish there was easier access to a report button, although I have not run into much explicit material… just spammer/robot diaries. Thank you for making the reporting process easier.

Okay…I’m feelin’ ya…I do write explicitly, but almost everything is confined to FO…So I am okay with this change 🙂

This is excellent!! I am pleased about it all!! I am glad the button will now be accessable so easily! God bless you & your family & all the staff & their families. BigHugz.

Thank you for this. I’m sure there are people who will scream “Nazi censorship!” But I, for one, appreciate someone who sees the bigger picture.

Nice clarification. I’ve had occasion to read some of the explicit stuff on here that friends have written, and I like that we can still post that kind of material. Thank you for keeping OD a place where we can all express what we want to.

Great revision and clarification. Thank you!

Makes sense to me and I like the idea of having a “report rules violation” button on the entry.

I applaud the use of this feature, but does it have to be so close to the return to top button? Can they be spaced a bit wider apart?

Sounds great, especially the easier access to reporting a rules violation. Thanks!

Awesome.

This is great! Thanks. 🙂

Good job. Thanks for the time you put into figuring it all out.

Sounds like censorship to me.

It makes more sense and is easier. I just hope people don’t start to abuse this to get back at someone and flood the report centre with BS violations. I noticed though that the report button is there even on FO entries. What if someone hits that? Do we then have to put an FO entry on private because someone chose to read that entry that was specifically not posted publicly? Just wondering.

Sad that you have to specifically spell this out.

thanks for all you do.

Thanks for the clarification, I found this VERY interesting to read. And thanks for all that you and the admin team do!

I think all of that makes perfect sense…

works for me

Good job on this one Bruce.

You might eventually add in a feature similar to the friends-only option that allows someone to checkmark whether an R-rated entry be set as an “adults only” entry, which would block minors and non-members, and in conjunction with that require (as you mentioned) people who join to have proof of their age so that minors can be on this site but not have to worry about censoring ALL adult entries tofriends-only entries. Then if people writing X-rated material aren’t keeping it friends-only and hoping to get it in the “adults” only wider audience, the “report” button would come in to keep people in line. I guess that is a lot of extra code writing and perhaps cost and complication.

I noticed the new feature when I went to click “return to top”. I use that feature a lot, and I hope that accidentally clicking on the wrong thing – the report rules violation, doesn’t automatically send a report. I don’t know if it’s just me, or if a lot of people have trouble with accidentally clicking on things at times.. but I would suggest including a pop up message that says “Are you sure you want to report this as a rules violation?” before sending the report. Maybe you already DO have this as a feature. If so, disregard my comment. 🙂 Just a thought!

Cool. “Nods head.”

I don’t know. I think what started this last spat was the erotica that made reader’s choice. I used to find that on special sites that were created for that kind of writing. And to show my age, what is now thought of as R ratings were considered X rating in the late 60’s and 70’s. But basically what I just read of the new rule was that anything goes as long as you don’t use the wrong language.Because the diary I’m thinking about used no sexually explicit language but left no doubt in your mind what was happening. She was actually quite good but her erotica fits well within being acceptable in the new or even the old rules you have.

Thanks for keeping Open Diary awesome & safe for people of all ages. 🙂 !!

Yeah, there’s a line and I think most people will know when it’s crossed. Making those entries “friends only” still permits people the freedom to say what they want and protects the young’uns and OD.

I would assume you have legal council? This sort of thing would be best discussed with them would it not?

Although I fully understand your approach and your desire to keep OD above reproach, I really think that making diary complaints too “easy” will lead to self-appointed censors trying to set their own standards upon the OD community. Reporting a rules violation should be difficult; it allows the person making the complaintant some extra time to consider how offended they truly are. As Justice Potter Stewart succinctly put it. “I know it when I see it”. However, some people “see it” in Disney films; others don’t “see it” in hard-core pornography. Some of the notes to you above mine reflect this very fact.

You do a great job, DM.

Agreed!!

Good idea… clarification is always a good thing.

I agree completely. Well done!

Re: I have added a new link at the bottom of all our diary entries (down past the notes, next to the “return to top” link) that says “report rules violation”. <– I like this a lot, although I agree with an earlier noter that there should be (if there isn’t already) an ‘Are you sure?’ pop up just in case of mis-clicks. The only thing I can think of that would be better is finding some way to make the person reporting wait a minute or two (like having the button on OD send them an e-mail with the ‘report’ link in it so they have time to think before they actually report someone) but that would be a whole new can of worms to contend with. I think you’ve probably hit on the fairest way to deal with the issue without over-complicating it. I want to say that I love that you don’t try to BAN explicit material… you just want it out of the general public’s eye. I also liked your R-rated vs. X-rated (isn’t that called NC-17 now?) analogy… I think it’s a pretty fair rule of thumb, even though there will still be those who argue from both sides that it’s too high or too low of a benchmark. 🙂 ~Shady

Guess I need to take a look at some of my more public diaries writings… I know a lot of it borders on… inappropriate. ;S

I have no comment on the rules “change” because frankly any comment I might make would be futile in the face of a decision that’s already made. But I love that you’ve made it easier to report rules violations, it’ll spare me from having to flood my own Bookmarks list with spam diaries until I gather enough to report in digest form. I was getting a little sick of that.

Thanks for the welcome message to my new diary. I like the Management here, but I’m having a bit of difficulty navigating around the site. I’m actually surprised how hard it is. I’m not sure what you guys can do about it, but I just thought that I would let you know. I may be more technically & spatially challenged than most.

Good call I find. Well said and fair enough. You do a wonderful job in dealing with this amazing site Ive called home to my thoughts and documentation of my life for the past ten years going on eleven.

I think it should be harder to report this kind of thing, not easier.

Good job! Thank you for taking such a good care of OD!

It didn’t occur to me that young people may be reading entries like this, and of course, it’s inappropriate that they’re available to them. On the other hand, one of the things I love about OD is that it encourages us to express ourselves the way we need to. I don’t necessarily need to write sexually explicit entries, but I’d sure like the freedom to if I chose. Since you techie types (Imean that affectionately, of course) are able to install buttons for us to report entries like this, is there any way you can invent a way for diarists to “rate” their own entries, or even whole diaries? Leave the “report a violation” button and continue to monitor content, though I think the self-rating system could nip the bulk of it in the bud. Looks like [True Confessions] already suggested something similar! When you or your admins have time, I’d like to hear your opinions on this. Also, I agree with a couple of diarists who are concerned about the ease of reporting violations. “Sexually explicit” is definitely a matter of opinion, and if it were my diary someone’s reporting, I’d appreciate it if they were required to take some time to think about what they were doing.<

You have a tough job. It irritates me that every thing has to be done to protect the children. I wish the children could just be excluded from most things. And some of their writing is some of the most vulgar on the site. All of the cutting stories, anorexia nonsense. On the whole I love OD. Humans under 18, not so much. Thanks for herding the cats. 😀

something rubs me the wrong way about having a button at the bottom of an entry for any random vigilante who happens across an entry to deem it “inappropriate”. i get that there are things built to “safegaurd” against what can honestly be considered censorship (not having an entry auto deleted, etc.) but i dunno. i understand why there’s a need for something like this on a public site, but it’s annoying to me that i’m given the responsibility of protecting prudes sensitive or underage readers. *~

I really don’t know. What I liked about OD was the fact that diarists were free to express themselves in any way they wish. How about people who write erotic fiction? What about those who wish to share their personal, sexual experiences? Why should these people be labelled as perverts and reported? I think people who are extremely closed-minded and get offended at everything will…

…have far too much fun with this. I feel kinda sad that the existence of children on this website has to spoil it for all of us adults who aren’t nasty, disgusting perverts. Why can’t you just install warnings on diaries that contain this information and make it clear that under 18’s should not read this material? I read sexually explicit fiction when I was young…

Far from scarring me for life it taught me the different styles of literature. I feel so sad that children nowadays have to be wrapped in cotton wool and blindfolded. Yes, there are nasty perverts out there, yes they need protection, but the world is seriously going crazy when this has to ruin it for innocent people.

I’m sure someone already suggested this, but why not create a feature that someone can make an entry “public” but also “adults only”?

Completely agree with ‘Frankly’. There’s no need to censor us all when you could easily put an ‘adult only’ filter on. What about people who wish to write erotic fiction/poetry/music? Should they be punished because of their love of literature? That’s simply unfair and breeches a person’s right to free expression. Yes, the filter is simply a relaxant but come on..

Some people want to share their work with the public to get some feedback from unbiased sources for example and now that will only be possible if they add every single person under the sun to their friend list.

I think your solution sounds great. As you say, if someone is reporting things that are fine for public “consumption” in your eyes, you will not take action. Puts a lot of responsibility on you as admins, so I want to say a big thank you for all you do. OD feels like a (slightly dysfunctional) family in many ways. Keep up the good work!

Good judgement. Very commendable.

That seems like a good, fair rule. Thanks for clarifying!

What about an intermediate step in the “report a violation” process to help with accidental clicks and vigilante clickers; something like, the link takes you to a quick checkbox form of what type of rules violation it has broken? You can check Racist or Sexually Explicit or Defamatory or some such, it takes an extra 3 seconds, and cuts back on the “oh crap, I meant to return to top!” errors.

I’ve always been appreciative of OD for leaving this judgment in a wide grey line… and for never contacting me. Truth is more important than censorship. If I would have studied OD when I was fourteen, I could have saved myself a lot of struggles. I think anything positive and productive, no matter what the subject, should be left alone.

I think making something adults only is useless. When I was 14, pretty much everything required you to be 18 to sign up. I became 18 in an instant. I think it really boils down to people being able to discriminate between what is/is not appropriate.

I certainly am glad that you are the one to decide and not I. You are now sure to be the one on point for any call you make.

Very smart idea !!

har har har, you said “more on what sexually explicit is or isn’t down below.” har har, down below! well, that wasn’t very mature of me and I apologize.

thats bullbleep! If i want to write about me bleeping a woman bleep bleeping times while a midget throws bleeped pudding at my exposed bleep….its my bleep bleep right! heh just busting your bleep diary master… 8)

Thank you for this!!!

I agree that explicit entries should be allowed ONLY if they are marked for a private audience. Of course, the problem then is how do we know our “friends only” people truly are within legal age. I have some entries that should not be put out there for all to see. I know that. Those are marked for the audience to whom they were intended. And thank you for having the different lists offriends we can choose for those who should and should not see what we write. Maybe all entries shouldn’t automatically go to the main public pages. Maybe WE should have to check a box that allows our public entries to go out there on that main page. Could that be an option? A box that we check next to Public/Private/Friends that allows the entry to go on the main page? By checking that box we agree it is within the OD guidelines of not being explicit, etc. That would take the burden off of you and put it back on US. This would give you less entries to have to monitor. And those entries could then go thru your sexplicit monitoring spell checker. Less work and less worry for you guys! Just a thought.

Censorship indeed. Sorry to the be the nay-sayer, here but… I’m a devil’s advocate. If someone clicks on my diary and doesn’t like what I’ve written in MY DIARY that I PAY FOR, they’re more than welcome to use their ‘back’ button rather than turn me in for expressing myself in my own diary. By the way, these same people that would do that could hear worse on the street corner, in thehalls of any high school or by even listening to the lyrics of a lot of popular mainstream songs. Just saying…

This site isn’t http://www.openPORN.com, it is http://www.openDIARY.com!

Can I second Maggie Mae’s suggestion???

I think there should be a way to choose a button or not if they are adult. If someone is going to read that sort of diary it’s on them! People shouldn’t be punished for expressing themselves. There are too many nosey people who like to get in everyones business and tattle! If you don’t like what you read, they should LEAVE!! They weren’t invited to read a random entry anyway. These people need tostop ruining things for everyone else. Unless it’s harming someone directly, people need to stay out!

How about a rule amendment allowing Rish or Xish photos on Friends Only entries? Just to be consistent.

I tend to cuss quite a bit and so I read through the entry and make it Friends Only if I think it might be offensive to anyone outside of my friends. I loathe those spammer Diaries and I have noticed I don’t see them as much when I random as I used to. Kids use this site often and I know if something R or X rated is there they will be curious so better safe than sorry. As adults we should be morerespectful towards all and make the entry FO. This site has come a long way since the days of just Free Open Diary and its so much better. 🙂

100% off topic but what happened to that lady who’s son went missing?

ryn: Wow! Thank you so much for the first note on my diary. It means a lot to me. 🙂 I will definitely check out the circles! Thank you, again! Especially for the tip, and for the good luck.

ok I think I got it Yeah this area has gotta give you admins fits; but You’re clear and reasonable here Thnaks!

ok I think I got it Yeah this area has gotta give you admins fits; but You’re clear and reasonable here Thnaks!

heads up and I totally agree!

I love that you’re using Twitter to notify us about updates. I rarely check the front page and likely would have missed it otherwise.

Amen!

This is great and yes, it’s much needed here. Hopefully people will heed your message. Thank you and all the admins for all you do and go through. This is a wonderfilled community. GBY&Y Smiles Warm Hugs Love

Thank you for all you do – I know no matter what somebody will be unhappy. But I trust the people on this site to exercise good judgement.

You are quite wrong. It is well established that sites that do not control the posting of content by their users connot be held liable for these posts. By attempting to control content you may in fact be making yourself liable. *shrugs* CD

Tricky balance. I’m a big fan of free speech, and wonder about being subject to the judgments of random readers whose cultural norms regarding sexual expression may well be different than mine. Sexuality is a normal and core part of being human. However, I don’t know the legal implications of publishing explicit material that can be accessed by minors but I like the ‘adults only’ option. Thanks.

Oh! You are so right about this!

that was something i saw every day on my favorites page, so it’d remind me to add someone to friends when i was ready (rather than have to read through a separate list to find their name)

It seems perfectly reasonable to me! If people want to write that junk, fine… but I don’t have to read it!

Well done!

As a father, I thank you very much for this clarification. The rule is the same, just better defined. Well said!

I agree with Gooner above about the profile pics. Some of them are just as bad. Anything you can do about that? In any case, I think you did well in covering all bases.

Good, fair rules.

Good job. It’s about time. For those who want to express themselves explicitly, publicly, you’re welcome to start your own blog on your own website. You signed up at OD and agreed to the rules. Deal with it.

HOw about a clarification on your copyright rule? btw I’m really unhappy about this. Unhappy enough to think of blogging somewhere else… and I”ve never been that unhappy before. Make reporting bad stuff easier but don’t put a button at the end of every one of my entries. Please.

I liked the rule worded the way it was, because being gay and male, both my husband and I get requests from people to change our profile pictures. Him more so than me, because he frequents the site more. These aren’t explicit, they aren’t “dirty”, they’re picture of two men’s heads… I have a feeling that you’re going to be dealing with a lot of people who just don’t like gay men now….

because now there isn’t that easy comparison of R-rate vs X-rated. Granted, you said language only in the rules, but I’m sure this must apply to images as well? I’ve seen a ton of naked women avatars, but as soon as it’s guys kissing, all hell breaks loose.

you know, I have been here a long, long time… and I have written a lot of sexually explicit entries, back in my wilder days. I say on my front page that this diary is written by a mature adult and intended for the same. I think that that’s enough. I don’t think it’s right that my diary, which I paid good cash money for, is censored.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that with the new wording concerning the front page issue, will people be reporting me just because they don’t like my OD being able to be seen on the front page? It’s so easy to report now, instead of people talking to me or John, they’ll just report us now, for essentially nothing more than being gay and not hiding it.

any chance you could provide a list of links to examples of completely inappropriate entries?? (i’m amazed no one else has tried this)

Any chance of moving that new button to the far left? I’m sure I will accidently hit it and get a lot of nice folks in trouble. Since I have been on this spot for over 8 years I have never run into any problems. Thanks for doing such a good job. Take Care of Yourself and your family.

Excuse me!? I have TONS of people attacking me, harrassing me and I am the one who gets a ****ing warning? If you even read half the notes left then you’d ****ing see. Get a grip. My ****ing entry is NOT harrassment. ****. This is getting ****ing pathetic to the point where I can’t ****ing say **** on this damn thing without having someone get anal about it.

Why don’t you do your ****ing job better and get all the people on my ****ing entries instead of ONLY getting me? Huh? Hell, I can give a huge list of names, but I doubt you’d listen anyways.

I agree all the way, cause this should be where we all do feel comftable.

I’m never a huge fan of the admins here. I LOVE the site, don’t always agree with your methods. Not saying I could do better, just think some things are blown out of proportion while other things are totally overlooked. Anyway, I agree that it shouldn’t be easier to report diaries. There are a lot of people I’ve seen who go around attacking other diarists that they just don’t agree with. Many notes left telling them how wrong they are. Now it’ll just be easier for those types to do this.

Isn’t there an OD just for teens? Why are we constantly trying to save the children from stuff they probably already know about anyway? I’m not asking them to read my diary, it doesn’t contain that much “sexually explicit” content, but if I want to write about something like that I think I should be allowed to without some over protective wingbat reporting me. Ridiculous.

I completely agree with this entry 100%. Young teenagers make up a huge portion of the population on this site. I don’t see the logic in how people are thinking this is censoring… it’s clearly just protecting our youth. Why do people WANT children to see their sexually explicit material? As a future parent, I sure don’t.

re: thank you for the note! 🙂 – noah

although this does not help if you unknowingly have a 13 year old on your friends list, and I have seen private enties accedently on the front page.

The “Report Rules Violation” link is WAY too close to the “Return to Top” link. I’ve almost clicked the rules violation link several times by accident. Any way to make it stand out more (like inside a yellow box or something) or move it so people aren’t reporting their friends by mistake?

^^ I’ve done that, too. Several times! Luckily there’s a prompt that asks you if you’re FOR SURE wanting to report the violation. Whew.

I don’t think everyone’s going to read these, unfortunately. And there’s so many sexualized diaries on here. What’s going to happen to them?

Protecting our youth from sex? HELLO, it’s the internet! If they’re on here using OD they’ve probably mastered the incredibly difficult task of finding porn. *gasp*

I like the change. I work with teens and they are very very good at ferreting out the extreme filth.

I think the people complaining about this haven’t fully read the entry! It’s a legal requirement that OD doesn’t publish explicit content to children, regardless of where & how easily they cld view it online! OD isn’t censoring, that wld be blacking out explicit words, not asking u to go faves only.I think the report link is fine, if people report you it doesn’t DO Anything, DM still has to check!

Anything adults only to be friends only or private? Fine by me.

Thanks for all your efforts :))

I think you explained this very clearly and I welcome the censorship – great idea about the ‘report rules violation’ link as well – I’m sure there were folk who may not have reported something they were concerned about for the reason you mentioned. Thanks for working on this!

I see I’ve used the wrong word here now that I’ve read some of the other notes! I mean no offence by ‘censorship’ – I was looking at it in a positive way as in protecting. 🙂

count me in as a grown up,please.

Please Please PLEASE move the “report” button AWAY from the return to top button! I am constantly clicking on it instead of the return to top!

Good stuff. Thank you 🙂

Hey- random question that I’ve been thinking about for a few weeks now. Have you ever thought of adding an OD chat option to see which of your friends are online at the same time you are? If they are you can send IMs (kind of like facebook)

Someone in your employ has left the following note and signed it ‘OD Site Admin’: “You left a note earlier on another member’s diary (kittenCorn), which made her uncomfortable because of the personal nature of your comment. Please avoid her diary in the future. Thanks. [The DiaryMaster].” The only note that I could find on that diary is one that read, “You do realize that Michael Moore is a comedian. Well, I certainly hope that you do. As to what is wrong with socialism, I’ll ask you this: Do you know what is best for you, or should those choices be handed over to some government employee who does not know you at all?” That note was in response to three notes left on my entry. I would appreciate a more credible explanation for this scolding.

Was this an issue when you had teen open diary? I like the idea one of the other noters came up with ‘the adults only button’ but i guess it would be a lot of effort. I mean i completely understand where your coming from and i have a lot of FO entries anyway, but sex is a massive part of my life and something i write about alot and like to share with others. x

My diary is private now – while I decide what I want to do. I am really unhappy about the guardianship here. I like/love the place and many of the people here but I don’t want so much control – so much assurance of innocuity (I made that word up).

Something I have noticed is often in the titles of public entries on the main page, foul language shows up. Anyway to just screen that? Like you do in the notes for people who don’t want potty mouth language in the notes? And I agree. If it’s friend’s only, hopefully those people with sexual writing (and I’ve seen some very graphic photographs by the way) is screening out people who are really too young for that. But then, if they lie about their age when they sign up, there’s no way for anyone to know. That’s on them.

Im starting to feel a combination of being sorry for you and being frustrated with you. I get how difficult it must be, because you cant please everyone on here. Although, I do think the changes/clarifications that have been made recently rather than protect people and your ‘business’ from legal ramifications, it just hands the spiteful and vendetta-crazy people on here the freedom to harrass longterm and well-respected diarists. I rarely use sexually explicit language on my diary. In fact, I rarely talk about sex full stop. My only concern is that very soon, my husband and I will be trying for a baby and that will mean I talk more about sex than I normally do. If I ever talk about sex its with veiled references and funny euphemisms anyway and I dont want to have to restrict a very important and exciting time in my life to my friends. I love meeting new people on here and Ive already joined the TTC circle in anticipation. However, if I do discuss my TTC journey, I will not be able to post an entry to the board for fear my entry is ‘offensive’ to some because I will have to make it Friends Only. That upsets me. Because then I wont be able to meet new friends going…

…through the same thing as I am doing. That, to me, is very sad. Even the other day, I made a veiled reference to sex and I was panicking that I would be reported for it and get an admonishment or threat to ban me from the site. Im from the UK, I dont know the difference between NC-17, R and X rating!

I understand you’re trying to shelter the people who don’t want to see sexually explicit material, but can we not have an option about whether our recently written entries be posted on the front page or not? Say, a simple tick box? xxx