Arguing for the sake of argument
I saw this tweet today and it gave me a laugh
Arguing on Twitter. pic.twitter.com/SPgqQ2hgMY
— Paul Bronks (@BoringEnormous) August 11, 2018
I’ve been reading a book on the early days of Silicon Valley lately, it’s called “Valley of Genius: The Uncensored History of Silicon Valley (As Told by the Hackers, Founders, and Freaks Who Made it Boom” by Adam Fisher. A lot of it is about the early history of the people who built Apple, Atari, etc. in the early days of the Valley during the 70’s and 80’s. The author does a really interesting thing, where he assembles quotes from all the luminaries of the day into a narrative dialogue, as if each chapter is a group interview in a room (when in fact the people mostly weren’t together at all).
Anyway, there was a passage I was reading yesterday about the early days of the WELL, which in many ways was the first virtual community. It was more of a BBS-type place, for those who remember what that is 😁. I visited the WELL a few times back in the day, it was a cool place.
What was interesting was that the people who founded the WELL were talking about how they didn’t even have a concept of moderation, or moderators, because why would you need that? Why would people say nasty things to each other there, if they wouldn’t say things like that in real life?
Needless to say, they found that they were wrong, and spent a lot of time trying to get people to stop arguing with each other – it reminded me a little of the early days of OD, when we first had what were called “snipers” at the time. I think that term was fairly OD-specific, and a progenitor of what we all recognize now as internet trolls.
If you’ve read this far, you probably think I’m coming to some sort of statement about how I don’t expect that kind of behavior here on OD – but that’s not why I started writing this (although now that I put that out there, I made that statement without actually MAKING that statement HA). In fact, I’ve been very pleased with the low amount of drama we have had between members since the re-launch of OD. Sure, there’s been a few incidents – but I’m so glad that people in general are treating this as a place where they can act better than what they may be seeing in other corners of the Internet.
I hope that it stays that way – one of my concerns as we grow this place is that we will be bringing people in who never had the experience of “previous” OD and don’t know that we expect better behavior here – but we will see. Maybe that is what I was getting at when I started writing this – my hope for OD. My hope for this place, if nothing else, is that it can show people the online world doesn’t have to be nasty, and insulting, and rude – and that people can treat each other with respect in an online forum, even if their opinions and beliefs differ from each other.
I was noticing, yesterday, that a lot of OD users are older, and thus, hopefully, wiser than we used to be. I guess the word I should have used is “mature.”
At least for myself, I find that there is a sense of generations, here. Those who remember the beginning of the internet, and those who have never known life without it.
A friend and I have started an FB group in an attempt to get people discussing politically divisive issues without resorting to logical fallacies like personal attacks and so on. My friend studied law and history and we discussed the idea of establishing a culture in our group. Begin with a few people who know how to follow the rules, and increase membership slowly, so that there is an expectation of behavior when one joins the group.
Maybe that’s what’s happening here. So many who have come back are here because they had good memories and have matured beyond the need for manufactured drama. Let’s hope we establish that culture, and as it grows, new members will follow suit.
For my part, I’m enjoying feeling a bit like a mentor to some of the younger ones. It keeps me motivated to keep writing. I’m really glad to be back.
@oniongirl that’s a very important point for any group or culture – it’s very important to establish the rules at the beginning and make sure everybody understands them, because then as it grows the rules are already understood. It’s almost impossible to come back later (like Twitter and Facebook are trying to do now) and enforce rules that weren’t enforced in the past.
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When I was at the old OD I found that people were only here to troll and cause havic onto others. Since this new OD has been here those people are either too cheap or not bright enough to play nice. I wonder if people run into those who caused the drama if if can go back and see if they were here before and not let them back in? I know a few people like that but they are not here anymore. The only two I did find was the ones I mentioned to you a bit ago….
I feel very comfortable here and I have met many new people who I look for everyday. And it seems that you are way more tollerant then you were the first time around….I am guessing that is because you and a the rest of us are more mature? Thanks for all the great work you and your staff has done.
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nice
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I think that it’s the delusion of anonymity that gives people permission to act in unseemly ways. If no one can prove you said it, did you really say it. But words are not air. And even if you never know my real name, Emiliasdance is as much my persona on the web as my real name is at my job. So my words are attached to Emiliasdance, and she and I are one and the same.
Personally, I think that people of two opposing views can have a mutually beneficial exchange. But there has to be respect for the person and boundaries that can’t be crossed. But it is up to each of us to defend the boundaries.
@emiliasdance that’s part of what we rely on – that people take enough pride in their online persona that they don’t want to sully it by acting a fool – but defending the boundaries is definitely important.
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Oh I just love the video, I laughed and laughed!! Thanks for sharing it. I love this (OD2, ) as some of us call it!! It does feel laid back and relaxed , and I am not aware of any discord. I like it so much to be here again, Thank You & your staff of trusty “elves” for all your hard work. 🙂
@butterfly4him that makes me very glad!
@thediarymaster : Yay!! 🎆
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I agree with the other noters; partly it’s that a lot of us have been here practically from the beginning (Nov. 2000 for me), and have matured. Of course, I never was a drama queen. I blocked people who annoyed me (I was so grateful when you added that feature back in the day!) I think paying to be here also eliminates a lot of the trolls. I’m grateful for that, too.
@startingover_1 thanks!
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I’ve seen nothing but decent behavior ever since you cut off the free time. At that time I saw a few that were coming on just to give you a bad time about the “Old OD”. Now I only see people wanting to interact with one another. It would be interesting to know how many of the trouble makers on the “Old OD” were paid participants, and how many had a free membership.
@dlk082244 mostly free, I’m willing to bet. It’s a benefit of having a paid site, for sure – people are much better behaved 🙂
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I don’t remember snipers in the early days of OD, certainly not like you see on Twitter or Facebook. I remember the days of the 8 bit computers. My first computer science class in school was a programming class and we proudly carried around a big deck of punch cards. A few years out of school I was working on a Digital (DEC) PDP 11 machine where there was about 512k of RAM and if you were lucky had 10 mb of hard drive. We wrote very tight code back then.
@altair PDP 11’s were great for playing Spacewar, as I recall!
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Thank you for your welcoming. I have so many writings collected here from 2003-2013. Much of these i would love to publish further. I already have one book limited in copies. I hope that i can once again push myself open once again. Thank you for coming back. The Open Diary was always a godsend for me in my most troubling times.
@themartyr I’m glad that you have found it useful in the past, and I hope you will again 🙂
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