Does the “system” hold black men back?

This a conversation that was started by a listserv that I am a part of… very interesting… the reaction below (in bold) is in repsonse to an article published in the baltimore sun about how the system is set up to "drive away black dads". not writtren by me…

My comments are particularly directed at the author and those who embrace his sentiment though I share them here.
 The article is nearly disgusting to me–beginning with the title.  I have tired of the excuse pathology that blames some "system" in "elsewhere" for what irresponsible young reckless black males choose to do and despite the article’s title, none of the statistics reported indicate that children are suffering for some unqualified lack of black fathers.  
 Harvard University educator Sarah Lawrence-Lightfoot would disagree that any such case has ever been statistically established for white single mothers either.  She has stated with credibility that no data anywhere suggests that an absent black father is no automatic liability or certainly the problem it is customarily marketed and assumed to be (I challenge anyone to provide otherwise); rather the missing father’s PAYCHECK is the problem and many children may actually be better off  without a black, drug-addicted, alcoholic, incesting, HIV-carrying, non-monogamous, abusive, and otherwise manhood-lacking male "role model" in the home (including Barrack Obama himself as the son of an alcoholic father).  Let’s be clear when we speak of "absentee black father": We’re not talking about Heathcliff Huxtable.  That’s why he’s absent. Placing that male "back" into the home hardly equals some "fix".
 
I once asked a black affluent Spelman and Princeton-educated mother who advised the President if rearing her two sons without their father was hard and she immediately replied with a smile, "No! It’s easier!”  Her two are the finest examples of young men you can find: none have become involved with drugs, fathered children, or dropped out of school and all have finished or are college-bound to highly competitive and Ivy League schools with academic scholarships.
 
It’s very convenient to just say—especially as a male—that "it’s not a money problem", or that it’s "not a child support collection problem" particularly when you yourself aren’t the child who did without because your father didn’t supply an adequate income stream to the family he helped create.
 
It’s  very convenient to call it "more complicated than that" when you aren’t the child who had to compete for your mother’s attention with her 2nd and 3rd jobs and, hence, lack all homework assistance and all parent teacher meetings, or who had to absorb her hostility and emotional crudeness from not always knowing financially how she would fully provide for her child the next week.
 
That’s awfully talented of Mr. Jones.  
 
Well, I’m not impressed. And I’m also not impressed with the degree of resources that go toward men in prison or those who have recently re-entered society from prison–many of whom are hardly done with prison; resources that could more promisingly be invested elsewhere on kids who have never entered prison, never will, and already have the value system that portends success and responsibility in life and in general society but who are not rich and still require support, both parental and financial.
 
We should put away the kleenexes and violins and stop reflexively mythologizing some great "loss" due to absent black fathers who too often had too little to offer the children they sired to begin with, in which case they shouldn’t be bestially casting their bodily fluids around like spit on the asphalt.  Secondly, we should surely stop blaming some system besides the free acting people involved for any "driving away" of black "dads".  In many cases that “evil” “system” is the only thing feeding many of those irresponsible black men’s children.
 
If the "black community" is grown enough to lay blame about someone being "driven away", it’s grown enough to lay responsibility at the feet of the casually siring and abandoning males for their childrens’ poverty and consequent shortchange in life by whose actions the said "driving" was instigated.  Lastly, black females are in the perfect position to mitigate against these statistics by dating differently and more selfishly and by strategically marrying and producing children with males from groups with higher income potential, higher priorities for the institution of family and overall greater cultural identity with fatherhood—what every other remotely successful and intelligent species of female has done for millennia.

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I hardly agree with this lady… I think she oversimplies a very thick problem…
 
Written by my friend Shu
 
I think to some degree, the author of the article is correct.  I am not completely sure, but I believe you can’t get governmental help in a two parent home, because the idea is that between 2 parents there should be enough income to support a family.  I have a friend, who 1) is not married to her baby’s father and 2) doesn’t plan on it.  Whenever she goes in for her welfare interview I don’t think she says anything about him, because he has no job.  When he did have a job he provided, she and her child never went without.  But still, she remained single so that she could pimp the system I guess.

There are problems with are system.  It is a system that is designed to keep poor people trapped.  And it is easy for people to do bad things to continue to be taken care of by that system.  This same friend could not enroll into school full time and live in low income housing.  I think thats a problem.  We should be encouraging women and men to attend school not penalize them for trying to better themselves.

To the response.  SHe was super aggressive. Inappropriately so.  She reminds me of those upper class black people who forget how everyone else lives.  One of her examples was a spellman and princeton educated woman.  Newsflash. That woman isn’t the norm.  She does not represent the families that the author is talking about.  This is my problem with the talented tenth.  THose black people who have broken through the glass ceiling, they forget and have no contact with how other black people live.  This is also why I was completely against that all-black community thing you sent me.  Because it becomes and all-black upper class community, that does not benefit the entire race, but a percentage of the black race.

I think having a father is terrible important, not just for men, but for women.  our parents are our first experience with adults, with love, with relationships, with everything.  Even something as simple as taking care of ourselves, cleaning ourselves, the soap we use has been influenced by our parents (or the people who raise us).  i agree that there is no point having a dead-beat dad in the house, but some of these dads are down on their luck and do want to be apart of their kids lives.  I have had many experiences where women use their children as bargaining chips.  I think in terms of public health and mental health having a healthy relationship with your father is incredibly important.  i also think that the system is designed for single parent (specifically mother) homes.  I think the responder only responded to half of the issue, "the single parent part" and forgot about the other part "poverty and lower ses".  I also, and you may disagree with this, believe that black and white people live by a completely different set of rules.  Things to apply to white people, do not apply to black people.  This is due to history, segregation, and possible lack of black leadership.  I do not consider Barack a black leader, but an American leader.  These differences between black and whites aren’t something to harp about, just something to be aware of, and continue to fight against through actions, and uplifting the black community. 

also i am not completely sure i like the way the responder uses the importance of a paycheck.  Paychecks are not daddies, they never will be.  They don’t give you rules, hugs, or love.  I hate when people cite money as a motivation for anything.  I also don’t like how she basically took the stance that a one parent home is enough.  It is doable, but not what I would want.  you need to have two parents, a mom and a dad, 2 dads, or 2 moms for so many reasons.  $, to learn about healthy relationships, to give one of those parents a break.

So I have some questions for you:

1) do you think this is representative of african and carribean families?
2) how do you feel this correlates with same-sex relationships?
3) how do you feel about the concept that only a man can teach a man to be a man?  The same about women?
– I feel like there were lots of things I didn’t learn, because my mom wasn’t terribly feminine, whereas my sister benefited from Ms. Pam living in the house, because she is very feminine.  SO things like makeup and hair, and clothing she is more comfortable with.
4) do you think it matters if the parents of are different races?
– i feel like a reason I feel really uncomfortable around most men especially black men, is because of the lack of male (especially black male) influence.  My brother was younger, and didn’t really have a lot of male friends.  My dad didn’t have any friends.  My mom didn’t have any male friends.  I have an uncle, but I have only interacted with him for brief periods of time.  Whereas like Latreca had much older brothers, and I think they along with the community she grew up in is why she has a lot of black male friends.

I think our parents and their relationships are very important, and how they view relationships are important.  If you have a mom, who is a gold digger and constantly exclaims that men are only good for their money, you will look for money in a man.

I could talk forever.
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I couldn’t agree more with Shu… there is something about having a nother being in the house hold that creatse a balance… balance in energy, love, frustration, sadness, happiness, and any other emotion that a child learns… When I first read the first repsonse I wanted to throw my computer… ignorant people like that make me sick…