Looking back at last weekend’s Forum…
I’m reading some entries that are trying to claim that McCain was a hands down winner of last weekend’s Saddleback Forum, and this leaves me scratching my head. Were they watching the same forum I was? While I was watching the forum, I believed the sincerity of Obama’s answers and was seriously turned off by McCains which was clearly a regeritation of his stump speeches. And I’m willing to admit there was a clear cut loser last night, that being John McCain’s integrity. To prove that I provide the following examples:
– There are numerous reports that McCain was not in the ‘Cone of Silence’ as Warren had referred to at the beginning of the forum. The truth is when the event began, McCain wasn’t even in the building and didn’t arrive until more than half of Obama’s interview was over. The integrity of the event was ruined because McCain could be trusted to arrive on time.
– According to his staff, McCain was in his motorcade on his way and want us to believe he was not listening in, even though the interview was playing on most radio and television stations at the time. Sure, whatever. Just look back at the transcript, and you’ll see examples of McCain jumping the gun, answering questions before Warren even finishes asking them. He knew… and why? Because he listened, and cheated.
– When Pastor Rick asked John McCain, “How was the cone of silence?”McCain chose to not tell him that he was late arriving and in fact was not in the cone for a full half an hour (or more). Instead, Mr. “Straight Talk Express” decided to lie to the Pastor, and more importantly to the American people. McCain missed an opportunity to show us that he had the courage to be an honest citizen of the United States of America, and break from the usual politics of lying, cheating, and deceitfulness for ones own political gain. He could have said, “I was late getting hear, but I assure you I have no knowledge of the questions I am about to be asked.” had he said something like that, I think people would have taken him at his word. All the lying about being in the cone when he wasn’t puts his word in quesiton, and his blantant dishonesty raises the question if he did cheat since he had the opportunity.
– There are people who are claiming that McCain’s behavior suggests he did listen to Obama’s interview and had prior knowledge of the questions. He seemed eager to talk about judges (obviously aware the question was coming up), and answered one of Warren’s questions before Warren even had a chance to finish asking it. The proof is in the Transcript:
WARREN: OK. Lets go to education. America right now ranks 19th in high school graduations. Were first in incarcerations.
OBAMA: Not good.
WARREN: Not good. 80 percent of Americans recently polled said they believe in merit pay. Now, for teachers, do you – Im not asking do you think all teachers should get a raise. Do you think better teachers should be paid better? They should be paid more than poor teachers?
OBAMA: I think that we should – and Ive said this publicly, that we should set up a system of performance pay for teachers, negotiated with teachers, worked with the teachers to figure out the assessments, so that they feel like theyre being judged fairly, its not at the whim of the principal. That its not simply based on a single high stakes standardized test but the basic notion that teaching is a profession, that teachers are underpaid, so we need to pay them all more, but – and create a higher baseline, but then we should also reward excellence.
WARREN: Reward excellence.
OBAMA: I think that is a concept that all of us should embrace. [ applause ]
That was the question as it was asked to Obama during his interview, during this time McCain was supposed to be in the ‘Cone of Silence’ and unable to hear what was going on. Now look at how the Senator from Arizona answer the same question:
WARREN: Lets talk about education. America ranks 19th in high school graduations, but were first in incarcerations. Everybody says they want more accountability in schools.
MCCAIN: Um-hum.
WARREN: About 80 percent of America says they support merit pay for the best teachers. Now, I dont want to hear your stump speech on education.
MCCAIN: Yes, yes, and find bad teachers another line of work. (APPLAUSE).
The crowd may have been cheering, but the missed something big. Warren didn’t get a chance to finish asking the question, but McCain already knew what it was and answered it. This is clear as day, smoking gun evidence that McCain had prior knowledge to this question before it was asked. Either that or he’s psychic! The likely explaination to it is that McCain overheard Obama answering it when he wasn’t supposed to be listening in. This is proof that the so called honorable canidate was indeed cheating during this forum and was incapable of playing fair. How else can you explain his ability to know that the last question was about bad teachers?
– An honest man, an honorable man, a man of scruples would not have stolen/plagiarized the story of the cross in the dirt. The story was not about McCain but about the Russian prisoner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn who was held in the Soviet gulags. Solzhenitsyn published the story in 1973, and McCain didn’t start using the story until 1999 when he started to first tossed his hat in for the 2000 Campaign. This was years after he actually co-published a non-fiction book about the Solzhenitsyn’s writings, which to me makes this all very suspicious. And he tells this lie in a church… which tells you how much respect McCain really has about bearing false witness in the house of God.
– There is now rumblings going around that is deflating McCain’s other POW story about his so alledged ‘toughest decision’. McCain said during the forum that his most difficult (and greatest) decision was to refuse an early release from his POW camp and remain with his fellow prisoners. There is a NY Times article (which I am in the process of tracking down) that quotes Henry Kissinger saying that Vietnam offered to release McCain to him cause of his father’s status. Kissinger said he denied the offer because he refused to give one soldier more status over the others, so according to this article… it was Kissinger who made the decision for him to remain a prisoner, not Mccain. In other words, another story during the forum that might be like the one about the cross in the sand… bullshit.
Looking back at all of this, how can someone really say that McCain came out a winner? He lied, cheated and spent his hour huffing out the same old, same old stump speeches. The only reason people were cheerring for himis because the place was full of Evangelical Christians… they were his friggin’ base! It’s like someone at CNN saying the Yankees were the real winnners becausethe crowd cheered for them the most. But if the game was played at Yankee Stadium, the answer to why the crowd cheered for them all the time would be obvious, they had home field advantage!
Obama walked into the Saddleback Forum fully aware that he didn’t have homefield during this forum, but came into the game and played by the rules, giving some honest and sincere answers… speaking with Warren not at him. He said he would debate McCain anywhere and anytime and I think he proved that beyond a resonable doubt by walking into the church to talk in front a crowd that clearly cheers for the other side. He played by the rules set forth, answered each question honestly and was able to walk out of that venue with his head held high. How could you tell Obama was being straight with us, cause he gave a lot of answers you knew were not popular with the audience, such as his abortion answers and his opposition to an ammendment to ban gay marriage. But Obama refused to pander to the audience, he wasn’t there to pander.
McCain on the other hand couldn’t even be counted on to show up for the event on time, let alone honor the part about not knowing the questions in advance. If he can’t keep his word or even tell an honest story rather than ripp off one from a Russian who published it in 1973, can you really trust him to be honest about his campaign promises too? Even if he had prior knowledge, McCain still looked like a fool. Snapping out the same stump speeches from the campaign trail (get congress back to work, drill now!) rather than talk to Warren and his people and be honest about himself and his intentions.
The canidates had a chance to be honest with the people attending and the nation to talk about who they are and what they really want for the nation, and from what I can tell only one of them was really honest with us… and it wasn’t John McCain.
Peter
And I wasn’t even aware that this particular event was a “win/lose” thing to begin with. Anyway… McCain. Sometimes I wonder if posting things about him makes a difference at all. People have made up their minds, it seems, and if they are going to vote for him, then they are just going to do that and not listen to anything anyone says against him.
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You’re looking at this ‘debate’ all wrong, mostly through a Democratic shade of glasses. Obama looked awful, he looked extremely uncomfortable and he’s sadly not very quick on his feet. His stump speeches are so good, so well delivered but his debates are always a huge let down. Bush is terrible at debates but his stump speeches are terrible as well, though in eight years he’s gotten better. Obamadidn’t answer questions well, he was evasive and he just looked uncomfortable. Obama needed to show that he can relate to a somewhat right-wing group and he failed.
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McCain on the other hand looked very comfortable, he looked like he was talking to his base. He needed this ‘debate’ to shore up the right-wing vote and he did just that. If this were a regular debate, I would agree with you that there wasn’t a slam dunk winner. But this wasn’t a regular debate, McCain’s goal was to shore up his base and he did it. Obama’s goal was to relate to the right and he failed at it. They came in with different goals and different purposes for their appearance, the result is what it is. As for McCain’s missteps, alleged or otherwise, you of course jump to the worst possible conclusion about him because he’s a political enemy of yours. If he lied about this cone of silence thing, then he lied about it. I’m not going to defend him if he lied, though I wonder if he wasn’t there for some period of time which would mean he wasn’t lying and/or I wonder if he had any idea what Warren was talking about.
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NL: Man you accuse me of bias yet with evidence staring you right in the face… you deny, demy, deny! McCain didn’t look comfortable at all, he was sitting stiff like a tree and talked at Warren rather than with him and snapped out his responses like it was a debate, where Obama was casually sitting back and talking with Warren like it was a conversation… and you say Obama wasn’tcomfortable? What forum were you watching? If anyone is wearing shade of glasses (or blinders), it’s you NL… and until you actually read the entry and realize that I’m presenting evidence and not jumping to conclusions here. How did McCain know the question about bad teachers? Is he psychic or did he cheat?
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Oh come on Peter, that question was obvious. There are only so many questions that are going to be asked about education and when the question starts out the way it did, I think it’s obvious what the actual question is going to be. Both campaigns spend a lot of time prepping their candidate and you can bet the question Warren asked was prepped for by both sides. I don’t think Obama lookedcomfortable at all, he stammered over and over again on nearly every question. Like I said though, the two candidates had different goals going into the debate. I think McCain achieved his goal but I don’t think Obama did. If this had been a real debate, neither of them would have won it but this wasn’t a real debate. It was a hybrid debate aimed at a particular audience and it has to be analyzed as such.
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So according to Liberal, N., McCain was comfortable pandering to his own base than Obama was appealing to McCain’s base. This is the SHOCKING political story of the campaign!
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Who cares who looked comfortable. I’ll bet McCain could look comfortable starting a nuclear holocaust. I don’t want a comfortable president. I want one who thinks, seeks advice and makes wise measured decisions.
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The thing about evangelicals is they are incapable of seeing nuance. Everything is black and white with them , there is no room in their world view for complex thought. Thus, to an evangelical everything Obama says is “weak” because he actually puts forth sensible and thoughtful responses rather than things like “defeat it” or “i’ll chase osama to the gates of hell”.
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So, it’s not surprising that your fanatics think McCain won and Obama lost.
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From my perspective (and hey, maybe i’m biased) Obama looked like he was relaxed and having a conversation with Warren. Obama clearly was not giving his stump speech and seemed at ease to me doing so. On the other hand McCain rather than directing his answers to Warren seemed to just bark them at the audience. Furthermore he basically did just give his stump speech, relying on the lines we’ve..
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all heard before (chasing osama to the gates of hell, etc). As a matter of fact the day after this “debate” took place, CNN went live to McCain doing a rally and the speech he was giving was basically word for word the same thing he’d said the previous night when talking to Warren. Obama more than held his own against Hillary in debates, I see no reason to think he can’t handle McCain who if..
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anything is not as good a debater as Hillary. I think McCain’s temper is going to cause him problems when the two go head to head later on.
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Does WHAT they answered count for nothing? No matter how comfortable they looked or who may or may not have cheated, I like that Obama at least went into a little detail about how such a plan should be implemented. McCain relies on quick answers and catchy sound bites (which usually have little depth upon closer inpsection), and unfortunately that appeals to a lot of people.
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