Female Friends
I got a note on my last entry asking, basically, what’s up with all the dudes? What about the ladies? And this is something I think about a lot, so I thought I’d crank out an entry about it.
I usually chalk it up to not connecting with women. Which is, I’ve realized over the years, a load of bullshit. Yes, it’s true that men are more likely to be interested in things I’m interested in. Mainly internets. My sense of humor comes largely from exposure to internet communities, and I find a lot of people just… don’t get it. And those people, yeah, are more likely to have female genitalia.
But when I think about it, not all the people I connect with share that part of my life. DW doesn’t. Most of his friends don’t get it, and I like them a lot. Sarah, my only major female friend (who now lives in Mexico) not only didn’t get it, but kind of… Frowned upon it? Or thought of it as childish? She never said this outright, because she tries not to be a judgmental person, but I could feel those vibes from her.
But I live in a nerdy-ass city full of nerdy-ass people and a lot of them are of the lady variety. And the more time I spend, uh, living, the more I recognize that I need feminine energy in my life. I need that balance. Or I want it, at least.
So the reason. The REAL reason. I know it starts with my late childhood to teen years, when I was not an attractive lady, and in fact was occasionally mistaken for a man in pictures of only my face. I had the awkward bone structure of a teenage boy, and to top it off, I was the MOST AWKWARD PERSON IN THE WHOLE GODDAMN WORLD.
Quite honestly, hanging out with girls made me feel bad about myself. I felt like I wasn’t girly enough. Wasn’t pretty enough. And all these girls would get all the male attention and it made me feel like… I mean, the word "competition" comes to mind, but it’s not like I ever had it in me to COMPETE. I would just recognize that all the girls around me got looks from guys and I got none and I just. I resented it. I resented women.
Not to mention being raised by an extremely sexist asshole who considered any feminine personality traits to be negative, frivolous, and at times, downright evil. My dad constantly talked about, basically, how worthless you were if you were feminine.
So I wanted to be a man to impress him, and I hated myself for liking, I don’t know. Clothes. And… girly things.
I was constantly ashamed that the only game I really played was The Sims, because that was a "woman’s game," and the internet sure as shit did not help me with my gender issues. They made it significantly worse. They’d insult you for not being pretty enough, but then whenever a womanly trait would come out, they’d throw around sexist bullshit just like my dad did. Objectification combined with utter loathing.
Then I got pretty. I mean, I’ve never considered myself the prettiest girl in the room, and I never will, BUT. I started to get looks from men. And then suddenly I started to acquire male "friends."
I knew it wasn’t about ME. I knew it was about my PARTS, but for fuck’s sake, at least people were talking to me, right? And that’s when I started to feed into it. To constantly fear abandonment if I didn’t leave the possibility of sex open. I’ve always struggled with this and I still do. I’m still just barely developing the tools to keep my male friendships platonic, to shut down possibilities, and NOT feel like shit about myself when those men disappear. Because I didn’t need them in my life anyway, right? Right!
Obviously it’s more than fear of rejection. It also feels good to be wanted, and after such a long time of never being wanted by ANYONE, including my own family, I fed off that attention. I liked it. And then when I stopped liking it, I felt like I was going to lose everyone.
But women… Well. They still intimidate me. The competition aspect is mostly gone, but… If I’m going to be friends with a straight woman, then they have to like me exclusively for who I am.
I’ve never felt like the kind of person who can makes friends based on who I am. I feel awkward and clunky and incapable of projecting to the world what an awesome person I really am. I have a hard time believing anyone (who’s not sexually attracted to me) would choose to put me on a list of friends.
Oh, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5javs0euqc
Most of the women I like seem to have a lot of friends already. They just don’t have any friends slots left, and even if they like me, they’re not gonna like me as much as all the women they’ve already developed relationships with. Or there’s someone more interesting or funny or better at conversation than I am. Someone better. Always someone better.
I don’t know how to initiate friendships with women, because quite honestly, I always wonder what they could possibly get out of it. I feel like I’m imposing myself on them.
Men, on the other hand, initiate friendships with me, and then I don’t HAVE to try and I don’t HAVE to feel insecure, even though I know it has nothing to do with me except that maybe my sense of humor and general interests kick me a couple notches above the other pretty girls in the room who like to talk about makeup all the time. (P.S. I love makeup. I just don’t talk about it because I know it’s boring to most people, INCLUDING ME most of the time, because what is there to say, really?)
Basically, making friends with people who don’t want to fuck you is hard and it’s vulnerable and I’m still constantly afraid of rejection, even though I feel like a pretty rad person these days.
But I’m going to try!
I just need to… do that. Lulz.
Besides, people in Seattle don’t initiate conversation unless there’s something they specifically want/need from you, so I’d have to do all the leg work and, well. There’s a reason I live here. Because I’m awkward and fear rejection and don’t want to initiate conversations with strangers unless I want/need something from them.
But I can conquer it because I AM SUPER COOL.
There is a male friend I kinda wanna make, but I know he has a crush on me. However! I don’t get the kind of vibe from him like he sees women as objects and will constantly be waiting for an "in." He doesn’t know I have a boyfriend yet, so I’m gonna drop that bomb and hope he wants to hang out. I mean, he lives like 6 blocks from me, works at the same place, takes the same bus, and is generally an easy person to talk to. And I think he’d probably get along with The Bro + Co. So I’m gonna give that a shot, while simultaneously keeping an eye out for ladyfriends I want to make. But I’m currently not frienderested in ANYONE I work with. I don’t really know how to branch out from there.
This shit got long and I have laundry to do! And dishes! And ALL THE THING
S!
P.S. I love you all for asking interesting questions and making keen observations and yeah. I have a big OD boner these days. <333
Dude, I totally feel you. For a while there most of my friends were exclusively guys because it’s just easier to be like Hey let’s go hang out or get coffee and it might look like a date but it will be more comfortable than doing that with a girl! Plus I met them on OKC and it was just easier all around. ~I’ll be
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Hell – it’s the same problem as dating, but not. “Where do I meet people?” etc. It took me three years here to feel that I had friends that I could just call up and drag out for coffee. I have that now, but the time sunk into the project was significant. (Work has consistently been unreliable for this, btw.) Gaming groups and critique groups yielded the best results.
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Fuck, dude. I have been scared of girls since preschool. I get nervous to talk to them sometimes, even like, the ones who have decided to be my friend and somehow consider me worthwhile as a friend. Like, I did something right, which is probably just being myself, but at the same time it really feels like a fluke or a dream and all of these amazing women are just going to de-friend me when I wakeup! Nuts, huh? But honestly, I feel very awkward around people a lot of the time. But then sometimes the conversation just flows. Sometimes I have to be in the right mood. Sometimes I’ll be “normal” seeming and people will laugh and like me, haha. Other times I really feel like they can tell how fucking weird I am and how I’m trying to cover it a lot of the time!
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This is the most honest and relatable thing I’ve EVER read about this subject. If I can also honest, whenever I hear a girl say that she doesn’t get along with women, I start to step backwards, because almost always (for me) it has coincided with a feminine-devaluing mentality (“Girls suck cuz they’re girly!”) or a self-glorifying mentality (“Women are too jealous of how hot I am which is why theydon’t like me!”) But your situation is totally different, and something I completely sympathize with. *I* feel awkward and clunky and self-conscious TOO. I love female company and I have a LOT of female friends (and I like it that way), but when I’m meeting someone NEW for the very first time, I have an easier time when it’s a dude. I think it’s because I feel more relaxed when I know someone likes me (and I don’t have to fucking WONDER about it), and dudes will be more apt to show that cuz yeah, they think they might get into my pants. I guess? Also flirting is more socially accepted but super liking someone and wanting to be around them in a platonic way is considered weird?? Which *I* find weird because FRIENDSHIP IS AWESOME??
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(continued) I was kind of just thinking out loud about the subject, but really I’ve been very fortunate in that the majority of my friends are female and they rock and they WANTED to make platonic friends with me. I really understand your feelings of intimidation though. I was actually surprised and felt a newfound sense of kinship with you because “OMG YOU FEEL THAT TOOOOO??” You mentioned that it’s easier being friends with people who will make you feel good about yourself, and those people are guys, and I think that’s a big part of it. I can’t feel comfortable with someone who makes me feel small. But that’s not women in general, that’s just individuals. Person by person basis. Some girls I love and some get my stomach all tied up in insecure knots. I feel like I have so much to say about this but I’m not tying my thoughts up together well. Long note is already long. BASICALLY, UM, I’m saying that I get where you’re coming from. p.s. Have you not noticed how many ladies here on OD seem to like you a lot?? I am one of those ladies. 😀
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ALSO ALSO… The bit about your dad – DUDE, I read an article a few years back about how most tomboys have female-devaluing fathers, who would criticize the girl’s mother for her womanliness, which would teach the daughter “Don’t be like that, don’t associate with that.” SO interesting that you had that experience as well. I think our culture as a WHOLE is extremely feminine-devaluing, and a lot of women are taught that if they dissociate from other women, they will seem “better” or more worthy.
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I guarantee you’re going to get ALL THE NOTES about how people agree with you on this because the truth is that friendship is hard and there is no real formula or procedure for making it work. You just kind of have to put yourself out there and hope something sticks. I think a lot of people make the mistake you’re making, which is assuming that there’s some special secret club into which they’re not invited. Making friends with women is not harder than making friends with men on any objective level, it’s just that you’ve found a shorthand with guys that works for you and now that’s your comfort zone. You don’t have to fake being interested in stupid things to make friends – just be yourself and stick your neck out a little. All it takes is one person to reach back to change everything. xoxoxo
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regular friendship is harder, because it doesn’t come with that manic, driving quality that defines sexual/romantic relationships. but for real, those platonic connections are invaluable.
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also: i wear makeup as hard as the next girl, but for real, talking about makeup is the worst.
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I have the same thing with talking about girls. For me though it’s more like I like too many people and then also I hate being open with people even though I need it so I end up being a super duper friendly hermit, basically. Will listen to anyone, talk to/make time for almost nobody. So I talk about boys I date or want to, because I mostly avoid relationships otherwise. It’s a really good system.
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I struggle to be friends with anyone, heh. girls, guys, they all the same to me. I just don’t let myself get that close to people. it’s dangerous like S: although I do find the majority of girls are vain and very..small-minded, you know?!
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Totally feel you! I have been putting myself out there with my girlfriends and being rejected by them hurts just as much as being rejected by a guy you like.. It gets exhausting. I feel like I don’t know how to be a friend. if you’re nice and do things for them they start taking advantage of you, and if you don’t make an effort they don’t either… Ugh maybe I’m annoying?
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i don’t even know where to start when talking about make-up, bro.
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Hi, you’ve intrigued me so I’ve popped into an old entry of yours that had an interesting title 🙂 And I am one of those women who has a lot of guy friends as well. I just tend to hang out a lot easier with them. And yes, back in the day when I was young and foolish and before I met my husband, a lot of guy friendships included sex. I think it’s just part of the parcel. Throughout my marriage my husband has been respectful of my male friendships, and of course they no longer include sex lol. But not everyone in society GETS IT that I can have a friendship with a guy. People don’t say it but I can almost FEEL it – them thinking in their heads ‘And what does her husband think about that?’ I went shopping for a pair of jeans and casually mentioned that I was meeting for coffee with a male friend, and the lady behind the counter OUTRIGHT asked what my husband thought of that. It’s like, would I REALLY share that piece of information if I was being a whore? No I wouldn’t., She was an idiot lol.
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