Zoo Atlanta and Free Will

I just got back from a trip to Zoo Atlanta and I was going to devote a diary entry to the adventure, but as usual I can’t find a lot to say about the experience. I suspect thats mostly because 90% of the animals were asleep or sedentary during the trip, thus, the story would mostly go something like We saw a Rhino, it didnt move, we went to the next animal. Not that it wasn’t fun and all; it’s just not the sort of trip that is open to a detailed analysis.

Of course, if I dont talk about the Zoo I have to talk about something or theres no diary entry, and, well, then all of you would go weeping to your mothers, and I obviously want to avoid that if at all possible. Still, I think Ive exhausted the Reagan topic, not to mention if theres one subject thats actually received enough attention over the last week its the life of Ronald Reagan, so Ill let the guy rest in peace for a while.

Which leads me to my diary reader suggested topic for the day: The existence of free will. It seems you readers have been clamoring for me to comment on this one for a while (or at least one reader, on a consistent basis), so its time that I gave it its moment in the spotlight.

The question seems to be, does free will exist, and if so, what are the consequences of its existence? This is a tricky subject to tackle, both because of the obvious religious undertones and the fact that if I say free will doesnt exist it means you are reading my diary merely due to nature taking its course and not at all due to my brilliance. And you know I dont want to admit to that. Still, due to my diary devotion, Ill tread onwards.

I admit, my immediate inclination is to simply say of course free will exists, because whats the point of all this if it doesnt? I mean, sure, it makes for a convenient excuse for murderers, Hey, its not my fault, its genetics! but other than that, I really dont see why anyone would WANT to believe that free will doesnt exist. Because, otherwise were just going through the motions, right?

However, if I can become an enlightened scientist for a moment, I think I can make an argument that free will doesnt really exist at all. Because, well, technically speaking, everything we do, we do because of neurons in our brains which are created hereditarily at birth. From that standpoint everything we do is pretty much set in stone from the beginning to the end. I mean, sure, some of it has to do with the way were brought up and such, but even then its just the way your brain responds to your upbringing that really creates who you are. Essentially, even you deciding whether free will exists is nothing more than your primeval brain reacting according to however it was originally created. So, its not Katies fault shes an insane feminist, its the neurons in her brain. You cant really blame her.

This is where stuff like the insanity plea becomes really tricky, because whos to say whos insane and who isnt? I mean, generally the argument is that someone who is insane did not have control over what he or she did, and, thus, cant be held accountable for it, but is that really fair? After all, arguably, their genetic impairment is no greater than anyone else who murders someone. Is it fair to let some people off because theyre crazy, but not others? Doesnt every murderer have a genetic impairment of sorts?

I dont actually support the crackpot theory I just gave you, but Ill admit I harbor some interest in it, because it opens up a lot of questions. If everything is in our genes, do we even control anything? If youre the religious type, isnt our soul already pretty much set up anyway? If Ive got a bad soul, theres really nothing I can do about it is there? Do all these questions even really matter?

The only question of the above that I can answer is the last one, and the answer is no. Ultimately, it doesnt matter if free will really exists or not. If it does exist, then, it is my fault that I purchased that REALLY tacky yellow Chaps shirt. If it doesnt exist, I can blame it on poor genetics. However, the end result is that I bought the tacky yellow Chaps shirt, and Im going to have to face that fact whether it was due to some wacky genetic predisposition or my poor taste (or both). But wait, I havent even answered if I think free will actually exists have I? No, I havent. I think you should decide that for yourself. After all, it is your choice, isnt it?

In response, your diary is one of the few I read (almost daily, when i can find the time) that chooses to address issues not always so personal, but more broadly based on society. I appreciate, because its wonderful to have a break from the drama of it all. (as you’ve read) That said, I will take your last note as a compliment, and most likely be scripting something in response here soon.

SexCrazedBizitch

June 14, 2004

What to say? Good entry. Every time I go to the zoo the animals suck. But I guess if I was locked in a cage just to amuse dumb ass people I would be pretty bitter too. laura

Bradwick4u

June 14, 2004

Interesting

well so you chose my suggestion. And id have to say you did a great job covering it. i happen to be stragglin the lines of there being free will and no free will myself. Even if there is no such ting as free will, we do have to treat each other as if there were free will in order to live together in society. Anywho headin to the zoo..

haha…i love your diary! well have a great day- note me back, whatever floats your boat! Have a great day! allissa

i see you have chosen to discuss the topic only from the biological perspective. it has been proven that genes do have an effect on behaviour, but i don’t think the issue of environment should be ignored. i think that there is no free will in the absolute sense. this is because of the behaviour models adopted from previous experiences and everything happening in everyones unique environment…

…we act the way we have been taught to act. but of course there is no other person guiding our behaviour, so for the sake of a functioning society we accept free will. we can of course decide on wether to stand or sit, but on broader issues the environment has the greatest impact. people from the lower class end up in prison more often than those of the upper class, and personal experiences…

…play an important role. although a person decided to steal it was the environment that “accepted” or “encouraged” it. shunning away from a boring desk job and choosing a life of crime shows that perhaps previous bad experiences on accounting denied him/her absolute freedom of will. i don’t believe in destiny, but e.g. socio-economic status certainly has a restricting impact. –katie

heyy!?!! i’m not insane. i’m merely trying to educate the world and the idiots living in it, that male dictatorship has gone too far. with males like bush leading the world we will all soon die. so i suggest we save at least half of the population. the better half. so let’s kill all the men before they dumb us down with bushisms and a-bomb us. who’s with me? matt? –katie

Sorry, I’m not going to condone mass murder just yet. Who do I look like, George Bush? As far as the other notes, you’re right about a lot of it. However, as you’ve said yourself, societal influence isn’t inherently bad, except when it is abused. Also, The Bell Curve covers pretty well how basically everything is partially genetic, including jail time, even when socio-economics are factored in.

the bell curve is an over-simplified model that doesn’t respect the complex interaction between environment and genetics and their result. whether peoples’ behaviour is guided by biology or environment it is still never-the-less guided. this is my point. for those who wish to know more about the bell curve, go to http://www.apa.org/journals/bell.html –katie (p.s. i hate the zoo, and the circus)

“the bell curve is an over-simplified model that doesn’t respect the complex interaction between environment and genetics and their result.” This just isn’t true. The Bell Curve has great respect for the complex interaction between environment and genetics; it just focuses on the genetic side. It only claims genetics (i.e. iq) has a large effect on society; it does not dismiss the environment

a model can not even come close to explaining the interaction and it is so complex that it is impossible for us (at this point) to even take all the factors and their interactions into consideration. here is some information for and against the theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve Although the theory is useful, i think we should look beyond it and have a wider outlook. –katie

Humans are supposed to have what we call free will. But does free will really exist?! Maybe it is only the illusion of free will, because the causes of our behavior are so complex that we cannot trace them back. If youve got one line of dominoes knocking each other down one by one, then you can always say. Look, this domino fell because that one pushed it. But when you have an infinite number…

of directions, you can never find where the casual chain begins. So you think, That domino fell because it wanted to. Even if there is no such ting as free will, we do have to treat each other as if there were free will in order to live together in society. Because otherwise, every time somebody does something terrible, you cant punish him, because he cant help it., because his genes …

or his environment or God made him do it, and every time somebody does something good, you cant honor him, because he was a puppet, too . If you think that everybody around you is a puppet, why bother talking to him or her at all? Why even try to plan anything or create anything since, everything you plan or create or desire or dream of is just acting out the script your puppeteer built into u…

We dont like to feel like puppetsso we conceive of ourselves and everyone around us as volitional beings. We treat everyone as if they did things with a purpose in mind instead of because theyre being pushed from behind. We punish criminals. We reward altruists. We plan things and build things together. We make promises and expect each other to keep them. Its all a made ups story. But when …

everybody believe that everybodys actions are the result of free choice, and takes and gives responsibility accordingly, the result is civilization.

hello nameless person! who are you? reveal yourself. give us an introduction. –katie

why a name?! i do enjoy being unknown, besides what would a name give you? “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.”

it seems that someone has used my signiture, but i’m also curious. giving us a name would make it easier to refer to you. i will not continue to address you as whatever-his/her-name-is, since it is too long to write. unless you come up with a phony name or give us your real one, you will here-on be refered to as pidget. you heard me, pidget. –katie

and as for your cliché, i’m sure you know it’s not true. and it doesn’t even apply to your situation. so why don’t we think about something in the real world, like womens’ rights in the US. i am appaled at the state of inequality in the land of the “free”. the whole concept of free in relation to the US is absurd. i’m losing sleep because of my hatred for the bush administration. –katie

“it seems that someone has used my signiture, but i’m also curious.” It seems to me that you started a diary briefly, then changed your mind and deleted it, but I’m not doing an investigative report, so I’ll take your “someone has used my signature” excuse. Oh, and I am well aware of who the nameless person is, but if she wants to stay anonymous, thats her choice.

if you have forgotten, i already have a blog and i don’t need to start another diary. but of course i have an account here, how else would i get to read OD-only entries? and if you haven’t noticed the diaries that are read by a lot of non-ODs have fake notes in them. and people have complained about that. –katie

i don’t see what the point is in being completely anonymous on the internet. it’s not as if people are actually going to find out who you are. just make up a name, any name. –katie

I hate the zoo. Those animals should be free, not in cages!!! Animals have feelings too. Don’t they?

“I hate the zoo. Those animals should be free, not in cages!!! Animals have feelings too.” I think the animal rights community has bigger problems on their hands then zoo treatment. Most of the animals I saw had good environments, and living in a zoo greatly increases the life span of most of the animals. I can see where the complaint comes from, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

heatherette

September 10, 2005

I’m not a pidget!