Why I believe in God… (nah)

Long absence…I’ve been *faithfully* reading OD for the past 2 months, I promise. I just haven’t felt as though I have the time or substance to say anything that’s meaningful.  But, I came across a length entry written by a person who explains "why she believes in God" and I felt compelled to respond.  Enjoy (comments appreciated). 

Why I believe in God   

 by: *****scanary         Tuesday, August 09, 2005

 Why do I believe in God?  Well, for me, it’s the most logical choice.  I don’t believe blindly, I am a logical down-to-earth person.  Although I may not be able to prove conclusively to skeptics out there, neither can they conclusively prove that I am wrong.  And thus it is often futile butting heads with someone in this regard, and there are many things that can be debated.  But still, I am convinced along with billions of others throughout history.

  As a skeptic, I’m more interested in determining if the beliefs that are held are held for the right reasons. 

 Eternal matter vs Eternal God?

 Think about it.   How did the first matter come into existence?  Either God was behind it or he wasn’t.  If God wasn’t behind it, somehow everything came into being from nothingness, just popped out of nowhere by it’s own power.

 Not necessarily.

 And even the concept of nothingness is mind boggling.  Before there was anything, how could there have been nothing?  I mean, what do you think of when you think of nothingness – a vast inky blackness filled with gas?  But even these are ‘something’.   There had to be ‘something’ filling the space.  The existence of ‘nothing’ to me seems an impossibility.

 

Reality is not constrained by the limits of your imagination! 

 

What if people said, “I can’t imagine something as small as a cell having any kind of functional ability, so it seems impossible.” 

 

 So if matter is eternal, never having a beginning, isn’t this just as unbelievable as the belief there is an eternal God with no beginning?

 Who is saying that matter is eternal? As a skeptic and an atheist, I’d say that, sure, that’s a possibility. But more likely, we don’t have that good of an idea about that kind of stuff.

 So, let’s just say, “we don’t know” rather than, “I believe I know even without reasons.” 

 Or I guess more specifically in your case, “I can’t figure out how it could happen, therefore, I believe that God did it.”

 But I think we need to chalk up one for God here.  Why?  Because it just doesn’t make sense that everything that exists today came about through random chance. 

 
Reality is not constrained by the limits of your imagination! 

 If you saw a building of stunning architecture, you would ask who designed it; it could not just have popped out of nowhere.  Same if you look at the beauty of nature, or the intricacies of the workings of the human body.  There is an intelligent mind behind these things, which man still struggles to grasp the mysteries of.

 Reality is not constrained by the limits of your imagination! 

 Even if this “design” is completely unexplainable by any scientific theories (it isn’t); this does not give evidence for an intelligent designer – it ONLY gives evidence of our ignorance.

 The natural order of the universe is descent into chaos, things break down and deteriorate.  How does this equate to evolving into more complexity?  You can’t blow up a Datsun and expect the pieces to reform as a Ferrari.

 The unavoidable moral law

 If you go throughout history, or look at different cultures in our world, you will find how remarkably the same their moral rules are. 

<p class="MsoNormal”> It’s almost as though we’re all human, or share some kind of roughly universal “human experience.”

 It seems that we easily cry “injustice!” as if there is a moral law that we expect others to uphold.  We can’t escape it, we expect others to be following this moral law and we ourselves feel accountable to it.  If we do something wrong, we are quick to explain it and find an excuse, if we do something right, we are quick to esteem ourselves by it.  And everyone knows they are not perfect, that they cannot perfectly follow this moral law that they find themselves unavoidably accountable to.

 We can’t cry “injustice” about the suffering world, without saying that there is a moral code that the world is not following.  How can you say someone is wrong in doing some action unless you are holding them accountable to a moral law?

 So where does this moral code come from?  To say it’s for the benefit of society doesn’t explain it.  It’s like saying “it’s wrong to do that, because it’s wrong.”  For example, do you think it’s wrong if someone rips you off?  If so, why?  Because such behaviour makes you and other people unhappy?  Why does it make you unhappy?  Because it’s wrong?  We could go around in circles.

 Personally, I think that evolution does give a rather nice account on how a moral sense could have evolved.

 Social animals with a moral sense were selected for in terms of survival, much the same way that animals that felt hungry when they need nutrition were selected for.

 In this way, asking, well, why should we feel good from taking good actions is like asking, why should we feel hungry?

 

Why do I care anyway whether what I do helps society or not?  People are more likely to only care what an action does for themselves at that time.  Yet I still feel something that tells me I must do the right thing.

 

If some stranger was in danger, this moral law would tell me to do something, to help, even though my self-preservation instinct would tell me to run.  What is this thing that weighs on our conscience to do the right thing?

 

Perhaps an evolved moral sense?  In any case, how does this argument, even if true, imply anything about whether a God exists or not?

 

Absolute truth vs Relativity

 

There has to be an absolute truth.  In the end, when you die, you will inevitably find out what the truth is, and who was right and who was wrong.  Relativity does not make sense; there cannot be many truths that contradict each other.  People can have parts of the truth right, and other parts wrong, but in the end, there will only be one truth – no matter what you do or believe, that truth does not change.  Perhaps it’s there waiting for us to find it?

 

I agree with almost everything you said in this paragraph (just not the stuff about finding out the truth after we’re dead). How does this argument, even if true, imply anything about whether a God exists or not?

 
The uniqueness of man

 
Man is different to the animals, in that there is an unseen abstract side to man it seems, which we could call his spirit.  Man has the ability to love, to create, to think deeply, to articulate these things through language.

 
Despite the troubles of the world, people still have a desire for the supernatural, for acceptance, for love, for an external something that can give them security.  Throughout history, man has continued to seek this.  Why?  Are we crazy?  Or is there something to be found?  Something that can fulfill this need within us?

 
It’s as though people long for some kind of father figure…something that can tell them what to do and what not to do, and someone to go to when things go bad…

 

Amazing book – the Bible

 
Now think about it, if God wanted to communicate to us, what better way then through a book? 

 
1. Directly imparting knowledge into our brains, accessible at any time, completely clearly, and uniformly across all the human experience so that there is no disputes over what God’s will is.

 
2. Writing his message in the sky, visible to all (and let everyone have eyesight). 

 
3. Coming dow

n and talking with each of us, one on one.

 

4. Assign everyone a guardian angel (that we can always clear as in the cartoons) to have over his shoulder that would be the personal God-messenger to each person.

 

Heck, and I’m just finitely intelligent with a very finite amount of time and I came up with 4 ways better than a book.

 

If God personally gave His message to each of us, there would be so many different versions, people would get it wrong.  At least with a book, we can all go back to the same source and recheck what God says, even though people still get it wrong.  The bible when compared with scriptures uncovered through archeology dating thousands of years ago, is nearly identical, the message is exactly the same.  It’s message has indeed been preserved. 

 

God could have at least written in a language that everyone understood – directly….and are you really saying, that God lacks the ability to convey his message to people individually in a clear and consistent manner? 

 

Why not just be available to clarify even if this is a problem? Say, two people disagree on what God says, just, have them both ask God – and have him answer. Where’s the problem in that?

 

I have heard of people who set out to disprove it but end up believing in it, because the evidence is overwhelming.  Billions of people have sworn by it, and live by it.  It does not contain contradictions; all the contradictions I have seen that people have brought up are explainable.

 

Why does it have to be so complex?  Well, isn’t science and mathematics, the building blocks of life (God being the great scientist/mathematician) complicated?  So why wouldn’t the meaning of life also be somewhat complicated?  The bible is the roadmap to God.

 

I accept your dubious “argument by analogy” – but from what does the last statement follow? “The Bible is the roadmap to God” – that’s a premise to be demonstrated, not asserted.

 

My personal experience

 

I have heard the amazing experiences and testimonies of many.  I have found many prayers are answered and things work together uncannily – even if others can explain them away as coincidental, they are far too frequent for me to refute.

 

There is a deep stirring within that satisfies my spiritual needs.  I feel as if I’m greatly blessed, and feel the intimacy of God every day.  I know that there is no greater way to live than by the laws of God, for this I have found is where I find the greatest contentment, knowing it’s the perfect way to live that brings freedom.  You might say I’m imaging all of this, or deceiving myself, that’s up to you to decide, but I’m sticking with this.  Nothing else has stuck like this has in my life – everything else before my coming to the faith was a phase, but this is something else, I feel it is external to me and cannot be shaken.

 

I’m willing to grant you that your faith gives you comfort, a sense of purpose, etc. – but just state it as that.

 

You aren’t interested in the “truth of the matter,” but rather, the “feelings you get when you believe certain statements.”

 

After all, the fact that we are floating on a big blue ball through vast space is pretty mind-boggling – aren’t all beliefs of men a leap of faith?  The fact that man does not have all the answers in the universe means that anything is possible, and reality as we know it through science may not be all it seems.

 

The fact that man does not have all the answers in the universe has no bearing on the reality of ANYTHING.  Reality is reality regardless of what we know about it, and what we think we know about it.

 

I know if you are a skeptic, you will find plenty of points to argue on and will think I’m a bit nutty.  Even if you can’t embrace Christianity, at least believe there is an intelligent being out there who created all we see.  I have my evidence and experience, and that’s enough to convince me.  I am yet to come across an argument that absolutely shoots down my faith in flames – there is always an answer from the Christian viewpoint.

 

So, why do you think there’s a God?