Was Jesus a Fraud (Da Vinci Code) Part 3

 

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So this is part 3 of my response to the Intervarsity presentation about whether Jesus was a Fraud.  The red font is from the printed notes given to each of the audience members. The blue font is text from the bible (KJV); and the black font is my responses.

HE HAS THE APPROPRIATE DNA THROUGH PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE BY WAY OF 6 KEY PROMISES:

 

1. The messiah would be born as a human.
   1. Genesis 3:15 again. 

 

??? Don’t understand how Genesis 3:15 relates (see where I’ve quoted this above). Oh, and the fact that the messiah’s human works both for and against Christians who claim Jesus is God. First of all, the messiah has to be human… second of all, this criteria is way easy to fulfill. Everyone has this one checked off.

 

1. Messiah would be a Jew and not a gentile (Genesis 12). God chose Abraham and the messianic blessing would flow through him.
   1. Genesis 28:13-14
   2. Number 24:17
   3. Messiah comes through Isaac Genesis 26:2,5
   4. Genesis 12:3, 18:18, 22:18
2. Messiah would not just come through Abraham but through Judah
   1. Genesis 49:10
3. Messiah would not simply come through Judah but through David
   1. Jeremiah 23:5-6
   2. Isaiah 9:6-7
   3. Both Mary and Joseph can be traced back to David

                                                               i.      Luke shows Mary’s and Matthew does Joseph’s

 

I have yet to find anyone who can explain how Luke’s genealogy is through Mary’s line. It lists every father figure all the way through and including Joseph.

 

1. Messiah born of a virgin
   1. Isaiah 7:14

 

This one has been beaten to death.

 

Isaiah 7:14-16:

7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

7:15  Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

7:17  The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy

people, and upon thy father’s house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

 

From http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/handbook/s_refuting.html

 

This chapter speaks of a prophecy made to the Jewish King Ahaz to allay his fears of two invading kings (those of Damascus and of Samaria) who were preparing to invade Jerusalem, about 600 years before Jesus’ birth. Isaiah’s point is that these events will take place in the very near future (and not 600 years later, as Christianity claims). Verse 16 makes this abundantly clear: "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken."

 

In fact, in the very next chapter this prophecy is fulfilled with the birth of a son to Isaiah. As it says in Isaiah 8:4, "For before the child shall know to cry, "My father and my mother’ the riches of Damascus and the spoils of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria." This verse entirely rules out any connection to Jesus, who would not be born for 600 years.

 

                                                               i.      The curse of Jechoniah (Coniah) Jeremiah 22:24-30

1. Savior born in Bethlehem
   1. Micah 6:2

 

HE FULFILLS THE PROPHETIC ID OF THE SUFFERING SAVIOR

 

1. There is a fundamental expectation in OT that there is a coming savior.
2. 24 prophecies for the last 24 hours of Christ’s life

 

All right, so 6 of the 24 prophecies (he actually mis-counted, 2 are double counted) are from Psalm 22. It’s not that long, so I’ll go ahead and post the entire Psalm 22.

 

Psalm 22

 

22:1  My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

22:2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.    

22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.         

22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.          

22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.  

22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.     

22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, 

22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.  

22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts.     

22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.    

22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.  

22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.      Many calves have surrounded me."

22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.  

22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.      

22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.        

22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.     

22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.   

22:21 Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.      

22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.          

22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.     

22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.           "When he cried unto him, he heard."

22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.           

22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.          

22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.     

22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD’s: and he is the governor among the nations.          

22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.     

22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

 

First of

all, who decided that Psalm 22 was a prophecy? If Psalm 22 is a prophecy, why isn’t Psalm 25 a prophecy? And if it is a prophecy, what clues does this text give that even SUGGESTS that it applies to the messiah?

 

Ok, so this is what Psalm 22 supposedly prophesied about the messiah, with the verse in parentheses.

 

Mocked (7-8)

Hands and Feet pierced (16)

Lots cast for garments (18)

Mocked to trust in God (8) – (it’s biblical counting, all right? precise numbers just cloud thinking)

Severe dehydration (15)

The Forsaken Cry (1)

 

The forsaken cry? Are you kidding me? So somehow this guy is arguing that if Jesus hadn’t yelled the “why have you forsaken me” – that he wouldn’t have fulfilled the messianic prophecies?  This whole thing is full of such confused thinking, I don’t even know how to respond.  Verse 16 says, “For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.”  The fact that Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced is taken to be a fulfillment of the prophecy; but what about the dogs that should have compassed him? Ha! The prophecy was not fulfilled, there were no dogs!

 

Moving on.

 
LIVED OUT BEHAVIOR (DOES HE DO WHAT THE MESSIAH WAS TO DO?)

1. Taught in parables
2. rode into Jerusalem on a donkey
3. rejected by Israel
4. perform healing miracles Isaiah 35:4-6
5. became a stumbling block to many
6. cleansed the temple

 

Sigh, the only possibly interesting ones would be the healing miracles… Let me put out

 

Isaiah 35:1-7:

 

35:1  The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 

35:2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

35:3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.        

35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.       

35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.     

35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.         

35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

 

Something about the parched ground becoming a pool, and where are dragons live there will be grass.  Again, this is Isaiah 35 from verse 1 through 7; where is the mention of the messiah? That this is some fortelling?  And even if it is, what dragons or parched land was ever altered by Jesus. Either way, this is not at all useful for Christians to convince anyone that Jesus was the messiah.

 To be continued…