Unravelled – Birth Control Nonsense

Unravelled wrote an entry posted to the spirituality circle that claimed that birth control of all kinds has been condemned by Christian churches through the early 1900’s. He made several claims, and there were other noters, so the discussion kind of wandered a bit; but since he made a few of my notes private (which I didn’t figure out until a bit later), I decided to repost them along with the relevant quotes.

His words are in red (or at least in quotes, the red’s having issues today).

"even if you don’t believe in God, it’s hard to deny that the purpose of sex, is to procreate."

Which is far from obvious to me. Whose purpose are we talking about?

“Abstaining from sex during fertile periods is actually a very responsible, loving act to do if a married couple decides it is not the right time to have a baby.”

Except that this is entirely against what the Bible teaches, as [Unravelled] wrote, the commandment is "To go forth and multiply…"

Besides the commandment to go and multiply there is never a place where it even hints at refraining from having kids.

If you think that I’m wrong, please post the Bible verses that back your claim up.

If you can’t find a Bible verse that supports your claim, why are you teaching this doctrine that goes against God’s word?

Actually I believe ATB is right in this subject. The Bible give some obvious teaching concerning both the use of sexual relations and who controls the womb of the mother. Procreation: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

God Controls the Womb not man (We are reminded over and over again throughout the Old Testament that it is God who opens and closes the womb of life. (examples: Gen 29:31 And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.) The New Testament teaches us not to refrain from sexual relations unless agree upon and only for a short time.

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. (1 Corinthians 7:4-5 KJV) Sex is required in marriage NT

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. (1 Corinthians 7:3-4 KJV) From the above verses it also seems to state that their are other purposes of sex as well not only procreation but part of a covenent of

marriage. It also seems to teach that sexual relations are important as to not cause either party to stray from one another because of the lack of sex. Nowhere do I see the Bible teaching that it is man who makes the choice when the time is right to have a child. Abraham wanted and waited for over 10 years from promise to realization of a son. Seems God has his time when he acts not ours.

NotKieran

July 7, 2007

Heh. Nobody who uses assertion alone ever expects that the other side has access to the information that they have– or that they will actually _use_ it.

AnGeLsweetE19

call me slow but i don’t understand the argument. anyway, how are you? long time no talk.

unravelled

July 8, 2007

i only made your notes private because it seemed to me that the subject of the note was more a private issue and not a public one. In answering it, I was unsure if it would have lead to anything that would help either of us. BrotherJim answered it pretty well for me,though it looked like he was confused as to who was making what statement. I can elaborate.I may do as you did and write another post

if you look how me answering the other notes went… you’d probably understand 😉

“If you can’t find…why are you teaching this doctrine that goes against God’s word?” Will Bible verses fill your hunger on this topic? Or is something deeper required?

“Will Bible verses fill your hunger on this topic? Or is something deeper required?” Bible verses would be perfect!

Band Candy

Plenty of social animals use sex for purposes other than procreation. Bonobos use it as a means of social bonding and conflict resolution. Makin’ babies may be one of “nature’s” uses for sex, but it certainly isn’t the only one. If all forms of birth control are wrong, then women better stop breastfeeding. After all, breastfeeding can delay a post-partum woman’s return to fertility.

^^^ Comparing humans to animal behavior. I guess that is what you get when you look from a darwinian theory of evolution and not the truth of the Bible. It would seem that the Word of God would tell us that we should live life a bit above our four legged furry friends.

^^^ Hopefully I will not have to be subject to some guy humping my leg in a show of male dominence. 🙂

ryn: I think BrotherJim has given enough. There are more.

… but just for fun: Gn 1:27-28 Ps 127:3-5 1Chr 25:5 1Chr 26:4-5 Hos 9:10-17 Ex 23:25-26 Dt 7:13-14 Gn 38:9-10 Lv 20:13 Dt 25:11-12 Rom 1:25-27 1Tim 2:11-15 Gal 6:7 Mt 21:19, Mk 11:14 Gal 5:20, Rv 9:21, 21:8 1 Cor 6:19-20 uh… yeah. when you string these together and put them into context, they will help you.

“ryn: I think BrotherJim has given enough. There are more. [unravelled]” You do realize that he was agreeing with me, and disagreeing with you, right?

Finding.Myself

July 10, 2007

The first thing I thought when I read Unravelled’s words “….the purpose of sex is to procreate” was that that statement seems pretty true in a biological standpoint. When functioning properly, the body regulates itself to want sex more at times of increased fertility (at least for women), etc. It’s just an added incentive that it feels good. Also, I don’t believe that God intended for people…

….to blindly follow whatever is written somewhere or whatever someone told them to do. Humans have free will and the ability to choose the right, responsible thing to do. The Bible can be seen more like guidelines to helping someone choose the right thing or give someone something to think about. But, then again, of course there are people who do want to take every word literally. And in that

….case I guess you do have to fight Literal with Literal.