“under God” “In God We Trust” ought to go!

I agree that the government should be neutral. I think a lot of people don’t fully agree because we’ve had predominantly Christian leaders, but if you were to have a Muslim/Jew/other non-Christian as president and if they were to be vocal about it, I think a lot of people would get uncomfortable. People can practice whatever the heck they want and tell others whatever they want (though I still

think that forcing your beliefs on others is wrong), but it shouldn’t be specifically government sanctioned. The guy who prints money isn’t being forbidden his actual freedom of religion by not printing “In God We Trust”, he can still go to church and celebrate his holidays unopposed. I think people tend to hang onto it largely because of tradition and an old way of thinking. To people that want

to keep “In God We Trust” on there, removing it would be scary, maybe because really that means they don’t have the “control” they once thought they did throughout the country. The actual saying is based on tradition and I’m sure at the time no harm was meant by it, but it’s outdated and needs to just go away. It doesn’t really make it a hostile move, just one that makes the country more accepting

For whatever reason, it seems difficult for some Christians to understand that removing something like “In God We Trust” from our currency does not send a message that Christians don’t trust in God, but is simply being fair and neutral. Maybe that’s why some politicians and judges have argued in the past that the phrase is only “ceremonial” with no religious meaning. Of course, such an argument isreally shooting yourself in the foot, because if it is just “ceremonial” with no real significance then there should be no problem removing it! Of course, judging from the outcry when that suggestion is actually made, believers don’t really consider it ceremonial and insignificant!

I’m neutral here (as far as a direct yes or no). But I’d like to state my opinion: Our fore-fathers built this country based on Christian beliefs and religious freedom. That being said, it’s really hard to say. Are we(as Americans, no matter belief) denying the principles of our forefathers by removing the statement? Or, are we honoring those principles by removing the statement?

…Thus not forcing the belief in one God or another (which was, by the way, one of the main principles on which this country was founded). So, again, (from my point of view), it’s really hard to say either way.

“the principles of our forefathers by removing the statement? Or, are we honoring those principles by removing the statement?” Seeing as the founding fathers chose “E Pluribus Unum” as the national motto — which means out of many, one. I would say that we are not honoring their principles by changing the motto away from that in the 1950s.

“country based on Christian beliefs and religious freedom.” Can you list a verse in which Jesus mentions something about representational government. Voting. Women’s rights. religious freedom. freedom of speech, press, etc. equal rights for people. states rights. checks and balances… If Jesus comes up short, perhaps there’s a verse anywhere in the Bible?

I think the fact that we even have to ask that question (should government be neutral) shows what an absurd state of affairs we are in. Very well written piece BUM. I’m no expert on American history, but I find it odd that someone felt the need to put that on the money in the first place (wasn’t it some time in the 1950’s?) It makes no difference to our lives, but the minute you try to take…

….it away, people kick up such a fuss. And taking it away doesn’t mean imposing some horribly Godless, decadent, heathen lifestyle on everyone. Although…….

http://www.amazon.com/So-Help-Me-God-Founding/dp/0151011850/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4510164-5303156?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189458564&sr=1-1

RYN: LOL, funny how the last portion of your response wasn’t posted when you responded in my diary. LOL — Anyway, my opinion had nothing to do with scripture. Nothing I said had to do with scripture. So why Jesus and the bible is bing brought up, you’ll have to explain to me. Rather, I’ll respond with facts and my opinions just as I did before…

But if you want to be technical (which you seem to prefer), why did the Pilgrims come to America, was it not for religious freedom? The womans rights movemnt didn’t start officially until 1840. It is a fact that in the bible (1Tim. 2:12), a woman isn’t to have authority over a man (a biblical principle that somehow wound up in American history, right?)…

When first drafted and submitted to the states for ratification, the Constitution did not include any reference to individual rights. Democracy is a post-Biblical concept – an invention of humans “trying to rule themselves”, one might say, rather than an invention of God (therefore is not mentioned in the bible). Although a scripture seemingly relevant is Deuteronomy 1:6-13…

“Anyway, my opinion had nothing to do with scripture. Nothing I said had to do with scripture.” Do you believe that Christian belief has “nothing to do with scripture”? “Democracy is a post-Biblical concept” Really? Athens was a democracy hundreds of years before Jesus supposedly walked around.

CORRECTION: I missed the ‘e’ in being in my first note,lol. — I’m tired, however I will continue where I left off tomorrow during my lunch break (around 2:30ET) —

“The womans rights movemnt didn’t start officially until 1840. It is a fact that in the bible (1Tim. 2:12), a woman isn’t to have authority over a man” I’m glad that you acknowledge the role that Christian beliefs (sorry, scripture) had in repressing the rights of women; and that womens’ rights is not a biblical concept.

Well maybe I shouldn’t have used the word democracy (poor choice of wording and I’ll admit that) but voting is a post-biblical concept,thus isn’t mentioned directly in the bible. However, a scripture that might seem something like an election can be found in Acts 6:3-5.

So, I said my response had nothing to do with scripture. It didn’t because I didn’t site any scripture in my response (some one as analytical as you should acknowledge my thinking towards that).

So, say that “women’s rights isn’t a biblical concept”, anyone that’s read the bible should know that. It still proves my point that our country was founded upon Christian beliefs because women’s rights weren’t originally included and in biblical times (as I’m sure you know), women had little to no “rights” or authority over a man.

–OH…almost forgot.– In some cases, yes I do believe that Christian beliefs can sometimes have nothing to do with the bible. For example, some churches don’t believe that women should were pants. There is no scripture for that. Pedophilia is looked at as a “moral sin” (if you will) and it’s even more of a shock when someone of the Christian/theistic persuasion engages in it, that’s when…

it’s on the news nationally, I’m sure you remember the scandal behind the Catholic priests molesting children. Would it have been such a shock if a some “regular old joe” with no connection to the church were to have done it? Oh yeah…and to my knowledge, there is no scripture directly against pedophillia; common sense, and normal moral code deems it wrong. Correct me if I’m wrong.

“some churches don’t believe that women should were pants. There is no scripture for that.” – Warrant 4 My Arrest “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” — Deuteronomy 22:5

To Atheist Under ‘my’ Bed, lol: Ok so I was unaware of that scripture (1 for the atheist, throw a parade). But researching the scripture, Deut. 22:5 refers to Jewish tradition or law against crossdressing.

Under the new covenant; Jer. 31:31 & Acts 15:16-20(which has a part in governing modern Gentile churches after Peter), or the entire New Testament for that matter. Gentile: generally refers to any person not of Jew or Hebrew birth that believes in Jesus as the son of God

According to that there is no scriptural reason for present day (Gentile) churches to set rules against a female wearing pants.

“Our fore-fathers built this country based on Christian beliefs…” Let’s just start here. What Christian beliefs lead to what parts of the country being founded? If you have too many to list, just pick the best 2.

I’m not about to keep talking in circles with you. I feel that I’ve already proven my point and quite frankly, this conversation is beginning to bore me. If you can’t understand what I’m saying, that’s entirely on you. However, I do find it interesting that you’d want to now back-pedal our conversation to my first series of notes. You are free to think and believe however you wish, as am I…

So until the next time I somehow find myself reading your diary, lol, God bless.

i wrote the perfect argument for church/state in a myspace blog, i will post it in to an entry on my page on OD so make sure you check it out> (its too much to put in a note). let me know what you think. but most people are shocked to find that this country was actually NOT founded on God, and to keep it the way it was founded would mean taking God out…check it out

lol i think i meant to write “almost 2 hundred, not 2 thousand” thanks!

RYN: It sure does. When the Israelites were wondering in the wilderness after their escape from Egypt, Yahweh is present locally in the portable tabernacle. Once Israel establishes its kingdom, Yahweh is present in the back room of the temple, the holy of holies.

RYN: MANY thanks for catching my mistake. 🙂

Neutral~

some people think that we should leave it in simply because it was what our country was founded on… deism. (not christianity like many ppl think). i dont really know where i stand on this.

I think it should be kept but the government should be neutral. The reason is for historical purposes. The religious fervor of the founding fathers played a big role in their actions and reasons for rebellion.

My how our nations foundation is crumbling. It’s no wonder people lived happier and more cohesive in the past when they all knew and accepted the acceptance of God. Look in history, as we have gone further from God, things have been getting worse, a lot worse.