More of Ivy’s Questions…

Thanks for answering the questions. I’m often curious about what people believe and why they believe. Its nice that you went in depth. I have another question; if you get bored with my questions, I’ll stop asking. I’m just curious about things. My other question is based on something Ghandi once said. Gandhi said he would never consider becoming a Christian because he never saw a Christian that lived like Christ;

The Bible instructs people not to accept certain things of this world. So I was wondering how a person who is not a Christian would define a true follower of Christ’s teachings/examples, and also how a non-Christian would define how a praticing Christian should juggle New Testament teachings (about issues) & still come across as Christ-like to non-Christians without being judgemental. (I’m afraid I jumbled those questions a little).

As a Christian, I think it is important for Christians to come across to others as followers of Jesus, rather than Bible worshippers. My perfect view of a Christian would be Saint Francis of Assisi or Mother Teresa; they let love be the testamony for Jesus, instead of going around condemning people. So I’m curious to know non-Christians would describe a true follower of Christ; and how the true followers of Christ should pratice the commandments of the New Testament without being forceful or judgemental towards non-Christians.

Thanks, [~Ivy~]

The first question: “So I was wondering how a person who is not a Christian would define a true follower of Christ’s teachings/examples…”

A true follower of Jesus’ teachings… Hard to say. Jesus didn’t write anything down that we know of (would have been handy). Asking what his true teachings are is difficult.

Assuming that the NT portrays the J-man somewhat accurately (which is a large assumption) I would say that the NT does not portray Jesus as a role model that I would want people following.

One part that sticks out in my mind is from Mark 10:

10:17
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
10:19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
10:20
And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

A couple of things about this passage.
1. It is the only time someone asks Jesus, “What do I need to do to inherit eternal life?”
2. Jesus answers “The Question” with the following humanistic commandments:
Do not commit adultery,
Do not kill,
Do not steal,
Do not bear false witness,
Defraud not,
Honour thy father and mother.

Dunno where he got “defraud not” – it ain’t in the OT, but the rest seem like an all right idea – a bit simplistic, but not terrible.

3. The man says that he has done the things that the J-man says you need to do for eternal life. Then J “said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven…”

An interesting addition – one that “true followers of Jesus” may want to do. Unfortunately, many Christians still own cars and proclaim that “believing” some weird thing will bring eternal life – although J never said that… Sometimes have to wonder WHO these “Christians” are following. (Perhaps as Walter Kaufmann (Professor of Philosophy, Princeton) said, “Paul substituted faith in Christ for the Christlike life.”) See here:http://www.bloopdiary.com/viewentry.php?id=552&num=210 for some on this subject.

4. The final part: “and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”

In my opinion, this is obviously a later addition to either the text or what Jesus said. It makes no sense in this part of the story – what cross?

5. So if you want my opinion on what can be salvaged from Jesus’ rantings – his repeat of a few of the OT commandments (including the leviticus 19 “love thy neighbor” commandment) might be a part…

I’m trying to think of something original that Jesus said…some new moral principle…He was a fan of Hillel (~75BC – ~15AD) “That which is unpleasant to you, do not to your neighbor. That is the whole law, and all the rest is but its exposition.”
See
Matthew 7:12 “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.”

I can’t for the life of me think of something new that Jesus taught.

Second Question: “…and also how a non-Christian would define how a praticing Christian should juggle New Testament teachings (about issues) & still come across as Christ-like to non-Christians without being judgemental.”

First of all, I have no problem with judgements – especially ones that are rational and critical. I encourage those.

And if you want to tell me what you think are “Christ-like principles” then I’ll see what I can do for suggesting how to act in accordance with them. Otherwise, the NT leaves me at a loss. I feel like I’m reading the thoughts of confused minds.

Second, I think that it would be very hard being a Christian in these times. Most of the time, I find that Christians first find out what they believe is “Good” and then retroactively say that everything in their “Good” category applies to Jesus. And anything they believe is “Evil” or “Bad” is NOT assigned to Jesus.

For example, Jesus never says a word against slavery. Nor is there a word against it in the entire Bible. If Christians are against the practice, it isn’t a Biblically founded belief. If Christians are for democracy, or equal rights for women – all of these things are progress in my mind, and yet very difficult to square with a “Biblical” understanding.

Do the various principles conflict with the Bible? Perhaps yes, perhaps no – but you can’t derive the beliefs FROM the Bible. Which means that unless you wanna give up the idea that slavery is wrong, you have to admit that the Bible isn’t a complete moral authority.

((This is for those who say that “slavery was different back then…it was fun!” Read my entry here first: http://www.bloopdiary.com/viewentry.php?id=552&num=21))

It’s tricky, Jesus gives people instructions on how to properly do a sacrifice on the altar – a weird thing to be instructing if (as later “followers” say) that these sacrifices are unnecessary. Or how not a single jot of the OT laws will be changed, and yet it seems that many of “those laws” were a different KIND of law – one that can NOW be ignored.

Of course all of this talk happens after the master is dead and gone – very convenient.

I often wonder how a religion might fare if it said that you had to be choose right behavior, choose right healthy habits, choose to better yourself and mankind. I think it would flop – it’s hard to sell – being a good person. It’s hard to sell because it’s hard work.

Here’s what’s easy to sell – you’re a piece of crap, and you know it – but all you have to do is convince yourself that you believe that a fancy thing happened a long time ago – and poof you’re set for eternity. If you don’t do this easy thing, then you’ll be tortured forever.