Jesus, the magician with self-esteem issues…

Ok, repeat of my brief argument, plus NEW stuff under the giant NEW.

Say that Jesus existed, that the supernatural exists, that his life was pretty much as is recorded in the Gospels, that he died and rose again. Say even that we can somehow know that he wasn’t demonic.

What does that get you? Even if I grant a person all of that, all that shows is evidence of a small local deity that existed 2,000 years ago. Even if this deity claimed to be really big and powerful, there’s no reason to believe that he is any more powerful than he demonstrated.

“Looking at the variety of religious experiences attributed to followers of Jesus, the similarities of those that pass certain defeaters (i.e. the people claiming the experience weren’t drunk, etc.) the ethnic variety of the people who claim the experiences, the huge span of time in which the experiences transpired…Jesus is more than a local deity, just by virtue of the common experiences.

And of course, in allowing all that, you remove the three or four best arguments against Christianity, and are left with the idea that Jesus was somehow a/the God. If you make that jump, you’ve kicked out the legs the atheist and agnostic stands on. I’m for granting the things you do here, and I understand that you’re doing it for the sake of argument, but it’s not as compelling as other arguments” [StealthPudge18]

No, I think you’re still in a world of trouble. Granting what I’ve said above:

Why should I believe that I have a soul and that it somehow exists after I die? Why should I believe that Jesus (the deity) has any sort of power or influence over that even if it could be shown that I had a soul? Why should I care about this God? What relevence to my life could he possibly have?

“Jesus is transforming lives today as well throughout this world. Of course he could transform yours but you are unwillng and unbelieving thus you will never see the power of the Lord Jesus. I wish you would.” [†BrotherJim™]

Same questions to you, let’s say that religious experience is good evidence for the object of that experience – that people “finding Jesus” shows us that he’s still around. Who cares? What the hell does that have to do with me?

“Yeah, I think Jim has a point. It’s whether or not the effects because of Jesus continue in other places. Also, given the effect Jesus has at the moment in Isreal and the surrounding places, if he was a local diety only, then he was a very time-specific one.” [‘topher]

Why couldn’t he be a very time-specific deity?

NEW

“You have a point; Even if it’s all true what the hell do you care?”

haredawg, you understand about 2% of what I wrote if that’s honestly what you thought my entry was arguing. 

“Now, BUM, about the soul. If you deny the soul, you are the one who must prove it…”

I could not disagree more…

But, I’ll grant you that there’s a human soul. Go from there. 

“Your gospels-as-conspiracy theory doesn’t stand up to the critics.”

Hell, I’ll grant you that the gospel writers actually believed Jesus was the son of an all-powerful God/God himself and anything else you want them to believe about Jesus.

You’re not any further in the argument yet. 

 I guess that you will never know what it has to do with you because in the words of the Saviour “a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign.” We are to live in faith which evidently yours is in failable man and not the eternal God. If you were to open yourself to him and allow him to transform your life you wouldn’t have to ask all of these questions. [†BrotherJim™]

Don’t you remember Jim?  This is the same argument I used when I claimed to be the second coming of Jesus “a wicked adulterous generation seeks a sign”… you didn’t have faith in me because you seeked a sign yourself. Double standards are everywhere.

Furthermore, Jim, what the hell does Jesus transforming my life have to do with any aspect of my argument?