How do the aliens relate to Jesus?

So many questions about how the story of the followers relates to the story of Jesus.

 In the example, to quickly recap, a close following group of a person had a specific prophecy they were expecting.  They sacrificed everything to be a follower – leaving jobs and spouses, etc.

 Then, they were unequivocally shown that their beliefs were wrong – the prophecy clearly did not come true.

 For a while, the group became increasingly desperate – understandably.  They now had to go back to their previous lives looking like complete idiots! 

 Then, and here’s the key part – they were offered a way to understand this absolute failure as though it were the exact opposite, an absolute (and unexpected) success!

 So how does this relate to the Jesus story? It seemed pretty clear to me, but I’ll roughly spell it out.

 The disciples were following a person whom they had a specific prophecy that they were expecting (namely, that Jesus was the messiah, and that he was going to bring about the demise of the Romans, and all that the messiah was expected to do).  They sacrificed everything to be a follower – they left jobs and spouses, etc.

 Then, they were unequivocally shown that their beliefs were wrong – the prophecy clearly did not come true (Jesus was killed, which means that he was not the messiah).

 For a while, the group became increasingly desperate – understandably.  They now had to go back to their previous lives looking like complete idiots!

 Then, and here’s the key part – they were offered a way to understand this absolute failure as though it were the exact opposite, an absolute (an unexpected) success!

 Here’s how, let’s say that John’s account of the resurrection was at least loosely based on the events that occurred – specifically the part where Mary Magdalene (a person who had been cured from demons previously) was crying outside of Jesus’ tomb and a gardener walks up to her.  Of course, in the story, it’s Jesus – it’s just that Mary doesn’t recognize him at first…you know.

 At any rate, Mary now runs back to the disciples and gives them a way to understand the failure as a success!

 Switch over to Luke’s Gospel for an example of this happening: (NIV Luke 24:13-35)

 

“13Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16but they were kept from recognizing him.

 

    17He asked them, "What are you discussing together as you walk along?"

 

   They stood still, their faces downcast. 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, "Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?"

 

    19"What things?" he asked.

 

   "About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. 20The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem . And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. 22In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see."

 

[They have the opportunity given to them, they are told that visions of angels say that Jesus was alive. These two travelers are now prepped as to what to expect – what to be looking for.]

 

    25He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

 

    28As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. 29But they urged him strongly, "Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them.

 

    30When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

 

[Wait a minute…that guy we were talking to – that was Jesus! We just didn’t recognize him! Holy crap…  You even get insight into their reasoning, “our hearts were burning within us while he talked on the road…”]

 

    33They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together 34and saying, "It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon." 35Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how Jesus was recognized by them when he broke the bread.”

The Disciples now have several different stories corroborating the same thing – Jesus is alive! The w

omen saw angels – the other disciples saw a guy walking on the street, and after talking with him for a while, found out that it was actually Jesus!

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YAH
June 12, 2005

The mind can spin a great story, you can literally dream with your eyes open. It is called being delusional, but the person experiencing it does not always recognize it as such, especially someone 2000 years ago.

June 13, 2005

wow, 2 years later you still have the same posts…how do you keep up with all of it? Haven’t you lost interest in the debate?

June 14, 2005

Of course, it also takes a lot of hubris and presumption to automatically assume that modern pop sociology knows more about first century Judeans than first century Judeans and people who knew first century Judeans. It’s a lot conjecture. My only question is, who is telling the story now?

June 14, 2005

“It’s a lot conjecture. My only question is, who is telling the story now? StealthPudge18” Ah, I was waiting for this objection – the thing is, it doesn’t have to have happened like I wrote in my entry. But, if there is at least one plausible way that the resurrection story could develop without a miracle happening, it’s entirely irrational to believe that a miracle did occur.

You know the way you treat ulo pisses me off. I have a soft spot for him, you know. I won’t sign this because you know who this is and it won’t allow me to private note.

June 14, 2005

“Jesus was killed, which means that he was not the messiah” < — ya lost me there. what does one thing have to do witht the other?

June 15, 2005

http://www.opendiary.com/entryview.asp?authorcode=A312092&entry=20318&mode=date ^^^Ponderings on your last two entries, the link is actually the second entry, conclusions from the entry before it.

June 15, 2005

“You know the way you treat ulo pisses me off. I have a soft spot for him, you know.” The way I treat him? I haven’t left a note or anything to that guy in over 3 months now… ???

June 15, 2005

“Jesus was killed, which means that he was not the messiah” < — ya lost me there. what does one thing have to do witht the other? Dance N my face Well, the messiah was supposed to do several things, and if the messiah dies before those things are done – oh well, you got it wrong.

June 15, 2005

It would be like someone claiming to be the 2nd coming of Christ – and then getting killed without fulfilling all of the things that are supposed to happen in his 2nd coming. That person is not the 2nd coming of Christ. That’s how they relate.

June 16, 2005

Then, and hereÂ’s the key part – they were offered a way to understand this absolute failure as though it were the exact opposite, an absolute (and unexpected) success! — Bum Isn’t this a fair summery of what you getting at? Afraid if I put it in my words you’d argue some miniscule detail I left out. This is the point right? How you believe the two stories correlate.

June 17, 2005

So what you are saying is.. because this is the same.. exceept where it’s different.. it rules out another story? It is easy to find examples why such an argument is not very good. But I stand more by what I said in my last note. Did any of these people die for the lie? You, Bum.. would never die for God; because you don’t believe he is real. Why would people who know he isn’t do so?

June 17, 2005

Many of the followers of Christ.. the ones you say were perpetuating a lie.. died.. horribly.. for this. What you ask for now.. is not a physical miracle.. but a psychological one. People under the pain of torture admit to things that aren’t true. See the witch trials… yet you ask for these people, under the pain of torture, to stand by what they “know is a lie.” That’s even harder to believe.