How can Christians worship a mass murdering God?!
Do not feel compelled to click on my ad above. – BUM
Please check out my previous entry for the context of the notes that I quote in red (except for this first one! Why doesn’t this work?)
(NOTE — not ‘red’ in firefox as far as I can tell)
I love when the ignorant take scripture out of context.
Would you like to talk about the other stuff, or are you really focused on one historical event? – Issued Puppet
(END OF NOTE)
Glad you asked!
Yes. I am actually quite curious about the thought processes that Christians go through to simultaneously maintain that the God that they worship is the most morally perfect being possible. Whose moral perfection is so untouchable and unattainable that we must grovel before Him in our worthless skins – a being to whom our best faith efforts at being a virtuous person fall far short of His high standards of virtue.
And yet, at the same time they accept the fact that this morally perfect being commanded genocidal acts.
But more to the point of your note, I agree, keeping to one biblical event might at first seem silly considering how frequently God acts in an utterly reprehensible manner.
However, keeping it to a specific example helps the conversation from devolving into talking about generalities — which no one thinks about clearly.
…god commands saul to destroy the amalekites in your verse, but what does saul do in the next verse? saul spares the innocents in amalek… – .:an artist:.
No. Saul spares only the king and some animals – disobeying God, you’re right in that part.
1 Samuel 15:8-9
He took King Agag of the Amalekites alive, but utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep and of the cattle and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was valuable, and would not utterly destroy them; all that was despised and worthless they utterly destroyed.
And what’s God’s reaction to Saul’s not killing every thing of the Amalekites?
1 Samuel 15:10-11 (NRSV)
The word of the Lord came to Samuel: ‘I regret that I made Saul king, for he has turned back from following me, and has not carried out my commands.’
He’s angry that He was disobeyed! This does not put God in a better light at all!
…you can’t take one verse from samuel and do that. throughout samuel, it’s a fight between the israelites and god, samuel and saul… – .:an artist:.
I did not misrepresent God’s commands, did I? He very clearly ordered the death of every man, woman, child and infant.
To the Christians who read this in general, and to .:an artist:. and Issued Puppet in particular, if you felt that only having one instance of God commanding genocide just wasn’t compelling enough for you to respond to…
How about several more clear examples of God’s commanding genocide and admitting to committing mass murder Himself?
Genesis 6:17 (NRSV)
For my part, I am going to bring a flood of waters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.
Genesis 7:21-23 (NRSV)
And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, domestic animals, wild animals, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all human beings; everything on dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, human beings and animals and creeping things and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those that were with him in the ark.
Where we have God not merely commanding genocide – He is the one committing it Himself.
Deuteronomy 7:1-5 (NRSV)
When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you—the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations mightier and more numerous than you— and when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for that would turn away your children from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. But this is how you must deal with them: break down their altars, smash their pillars, hew down their sacred poles, and burn their idols with fire.
More genocide commanding…
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 (NRSV)
But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded, so that they may not teach you to do all the abhorrent things that they do for their gods, and you thus sin against the Lord your God.
Yeah, the command actually read: “you must not let anything that breathes remain alive”!
Woo that’s an angry God.
Joshua 10:38-40 (NRSV)
Then Joshua, with all Israel, turned back to Debir and assaulted it, and he took it with its king and all its towns; they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Hebron, and, as he had done to Libnah and its king, so he did to Debir and its king. So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded.
Again with the utter destruction of all that breathed, just as God commands.
Christians: You can argue that the Bible is an unreliable do
cument for knowing what God said and did, but this is an area of refuge that few of you should want to take (tactically, that is).
Keep in mind that I’m not asking you to justify God’s actions. (This point is apparently a really difficult one to understand).
His commands to commit genocide and mass murder are clear and unequivocal.
His actual participation is equally undeniable.
I am asking you to evaluate and explain your inner thoughts.
How do you reconcile these facts with your saying that God is “all-good”? Or worthy of worship?
What kind of methods do you use to contort your mind to the point of calling these atrocious acts the actions of a morally perfect being?
Sure doesn’t leave much room for doubt. But then to blindly follow a ‘ghost, god’ or whatever is just plain fairy tale like. You will never sway them as they think that there is more after this. They will go and be with this god and also command these acts on us ‘sinners’. hahahahha….dan
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i appreciate your knowledge of the bible, seriously. being catholic, many of us are pretty ignorant of what it says. also, can i just say that you are entitled to your belief/non-belief, and i am not here to convert you but maybe have an intellectual discussion on this topic. i will respond later on!
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I was wondering about the great flood. There are some things about it that make no sense. In the short time period since the flood, how did the survivors on the ark evolve into all the genetically and racially diverse peoples that now inhabit the earth. The other thing is, how did all the animals get to far flung places like Australia. I guess god could have teleported them.
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😀
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I don’t know so much about the modern Christian concept of God, but I worship Krishna Who personally appeared to murder many many non believers. That is just His nature. In Bhagavad gita also He says He casts down the demoniac persons into lower species of life. So God has a heavy side.
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I dont know how/want to defend God. Glad you’re not asking me to do that. It still blows my mind beyond belief that we humans even try to understand God and his reasoning. Who are we to label morality? As I continue my studies in my anatomy course I continue to be amazed at its complexity and even more amazed that people think this complex structure evolved…I dont even want to begin to explain
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how impossible that would be. Anyways, that’s not the point. So why do I praise a “genocide” God? Wow…big words. I mean first I would have to accept that we know all of the facts, exactly what happened down to a T. I would have to accept the fact that what you are saying is right over what God is saying. We humans are egotistical animals. That’s GENOCIDE! we say…because we make the rules, we
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decide what is right and wrong. Why did God kill all of those people? God created the human race…no matter how you put it…we are CONSTRUCTED. We are a creation of God. So if you build a shed…and then you destroy it…you are committing genocide of all the wood fibers. Do keep in mind that wood contains many living cells and what not. Wow, taking this way out of context D_MP! Am I?
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Do the cells in that wood beam not have a right to life as much as you do? On a massive scale that’s really what you are saying. Again, we are so egotistical. I understand that it takes a great imagination to even give a crap about cells living in wood fibers. So please dont commit genocide against your creation ok? They will then spread the word to other wood fibers not to believe in you. Even
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though at any minute you can destroy them. If anyone hasnt guessed yet…Im kind of using an example. I believe in God because he created everything. Even more foolish then believing in God is believing that you came from a speck of dust and evolved over a billion years. You would suffocate, choke, dehydrate, not be able to reproduce in the time it would take to evolve to a survivable species.
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God killing children to us IS a dramatic thing. To many the IDEA of God is dramatic. Simply trying to put a label on him saying he is a mass killer is the best we can come up with. We are humans. I defend God because of the good he brings to my life and the promise of eternal life. Even if I was a non believer and I sat back and considered the options..Eternal life or Eternal torture. I wouldnt
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even want to take the CHANCE. We make mistakes all day. And the greatest mistake the human race has ever made is turning their backs on God. You cite the “bad” things God has done and refuse to point out the good.
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Wow, I just saw someone defend the murder of children. So, D_MP, if I were a billionaire, and the donations I made had resulted in a cure for cancer and an end to a need for fossil fuels, would that make it ok for me to murder children? If not, why not? Why am I held to a higher standard than your monster of a god?
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To DMP: Doesn’t your gawd outline his ideas of morality very clearly in the ten commandments (well not so clearly but that is another debate) isn’t one of those commandments “Thou shalt not kill”. How do you reconcile the fact that if you break those commandments you are going to hell but if gawd breaks them nothing happens, because he is dad and he says so… ?
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Also, there is a fallacy in your “wood-shed” argument. first of all, we do not construct the wood itself, nor do we construct the cells or the wood fibers in that wood. We take an already existing creation and modify it. One is not as the other. If we did create the cells and wood fibers and the intricate balance of the communities present in a wood shed I would more than willingly concede your
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point, however, we do not. Our step in modifying an existing creation is nothing like gawds supposed power to create matter from nothing at all. As for your final point, is that not much like theists pointing out only the good and deliberately ignoring the bad. I have seen more harm done by embracing a theistic view than I have seen by rejecting one. When you can prove that believing does
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more good than bad, then I might choose to embrace your dream of an imaginary sky-friend as my own. Until that point in time, I will stick to science rather than feelings.
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3:9 – 2 Peter. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Does God take pleasure is anyones destruction? Absolutely not! 18:32 – Ezekiel For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, sayeth the Lord GOD: wherefor turn yourselves around, and live ye.
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1:9 – 1 John. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.
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“He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.” — Renna I’m not concerned about my sins… I’m concerned about God’s.
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I’m so grateful that the highest Power-Creator-God,Yahweh, who I’ve come to know, love & worship through the inspired word of the Bible is sinless & He has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked the Bible says “it’s a strange act”. It’s like putting to sleep an animal that has rabies. It’s the most merciful thing that can be done.
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The fallen archangel-lucifer who became satan after sin was found in him, is the god w/ sin. Satan is the mass-murdering god who appears as an angel of light. The true sinless God, Yahweh, is all about life & salvation. Satan is the author of all sin, pain, suffering, disease, temptation, imbalance of nature & death.
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answer: God is serious about sin
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also, read Job 4:17
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