dignity

actually, if you believe in the christian god, and read the bible and believe every story, a woman’s “fertility” is not a gift, but a curse… everything that has to do with the woman’s reproductive system is a curse, a punishment. only recently have bright-eyed people decided that it was a lovely gift from the christian god. many years ago, men would not go near women because of this verycurse. did you know men could not be buried next to women after death unless they were married, because it was stated that the woman’s soul could haunt the man’s soul? mmhmm but i do understand what you’re trying to say in the entry…just wanted to put that into perspective for you 🙂 have a good day

yesican: When I read the bible, the only part that is considered cursed (in the OLD testament) is menstruation which is linked directly to the fall. The behaviour of the Jewish people towards women came from superstition and distortions of what God actually said. We are mostly talking about OLD testament times. Now we live in a time of grace. Otherwise, we’d be stoning people for working on Sunday

yesican: But I’m not even sure “cursed” was every used in the Bible. That may be a bit of a stretch. Menstruation was considered unclean based on Levitical law.

the serpent( devil) tempted eve, eve tempted adam…god cursed eve and everything that came thereafter was directly linked to eve’s inability not to be tempted by the devil. but i’m mainly focusing on man’s decision in history to cast a woman aside like she was so cursed. people take in the bible to mean different things, and many men in history took it upon themselves to think that women werecursed, because god made it so. but now i’d like to respond to your entry as a whole, and the message you’re trying to send. I certainly think that those of christian faith who believe that god never gives you more than you can handle are the ones who don’t believe in birth control. i believe that though those of christian faith have every right, there also needs to be some personal responsibility. if you are married and have three kids and already are living off the government, saying it’s “god’s will” if you get pregnant again is just not taking responsibility, and in the very least, making one irresponsible. but then again, this is coming from a nonchristian.

yesican: On the other hand, Natural Family Planning is proven to be more effective than “the pill.” http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/587813/posts So either these people you are talking about are ignorant, or just don’t know. Probably the latter. Either way, God still gives us a way to “plan” for our children in a much better way than contraception.

another link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6375261.stm

i’m sorry…but that will work for some, definitely not for all…and to avoid sex during your fertile days seems like something teenagers would come up with to avoid getting pregnant…it’s just as effective as a condom that breaks. and i’m sorry again, but telling my lover, or even MYSELF for the matter, that i can only be in the mood for sex on these certain days is crazy. it’s more thanlikely to send me out of the mood. and i don’t remember reading about only having sex on nonfertile days in the bible. enlighten me.

Gen 3:16 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” Woman’s punishment is to have childbirth pains and to be subjugated under the will of the husband.

“…and to avoid sex during your fertile days …(is)just as effective as a condom that breaks.” Actually, if you read the British Medical Association paper, you will realize that NFP is far more effective than all other artificial forms of contraception. This is not a pissing match here. Do your own research about it and you will come to the same conclusion.

Abstaining from sex during fertile periods is actually a very responsible, loving act to do if a married couple decides it is not the right time to have a baby. It exercises self control and Christian aestheticism. Teenagers are not capable of making responsible decisions regarding sexuality. I remember, I was one of them. Sex wasn’t designed to happen outside of marriage.

These notes are digressing from the point…the dignity of a woman is in question when she uses artificial contraception.

Gen 3:16 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” Adam was standing right beside Eve when she was tempted. Why didn’t he stand up for his wife? Because he was scared. They both fell because of this.

“Sex wasn’t designed to happen outside of marriage.” Who says?

“Sex wasn’t designed to happen outside of marriage.” says people of christian faith…doesn’t fall for everyone

i will not come to the same conclusion…no sex is 100% effective birth control….not waiting until you’re fertile to not have sex. that’s just taking a big leap of faith that you won’t get pregnant…which may be enough for some people, but not a lot of people. i would like to think of myself as a level-headed person and open-minded, but i would never use this as a way of birth control. i know better

wrote out my questions in an entry for you.

So are you actually against birth control? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. Without birth control there would be a lot more “prom night dumpster babies” for us to deal with… would you rather that happened? Because the vast majority aren’t going to stop having pre-marital sex because “gawd” said so. Be realistic.

I think your making a false analogy in your entry, when you try to compare the use of contraception to the use of nuclear weapons and slavery. Contraception and nuclear weapons and slavery are nowhere near similar – nuclear weapons and slavery cause incredible harm and suffering, and all contraception does is stop sperm from reaching an egg (or vice versa).

In my opinion, a woman having the choice to use contraception or not to use contraception and understanding the possible outcomes of either choice is dignifying. Making this choice in fear and / or ignorance is not dignifying.

“Will Bible verses fill your hunger on this topic? Or is something deeper required?” Bible verses would be perfect!

…just for fun-What God has to say about Contraception: Gn 1:27-28 Ps 127:3-5 1Chr 25:5 1Chr 26:4-5 Hos 9:10-17 Ex 23:25-26 Dt 7:13-14 Gn 38:9-10 Lv 20:13 Dt 25:11-12 Rom 1:25-27 1Tim 2:11-15 Gal 6:7 Mt 21:19, Mk 11:14 Gal 5:20, Rv 9:21, 21:8 1 Cor 6:19-20 uh… yeah. when you string these together and put them into context, they will help you.

Posted my response here: http://www.opendiary.com/entryview.asp?authorcode=A414735&entry=20126

First Corinthians 6:9 speaks directly against fornication. Also Hebrews 13:4 could have been sited when AThinkingBUM asked about the design of sex and fornication.

Note that: Marriage is being dishonored today by lightly esteeming the marriage bond by condoning every kind of sexual license. “Let the marriage bed be undefiled” – “bed” is the Greek koite, which is a euphemism for sexual intercourse.

Marriage, since it is an ordinance of God, is neither defiling, nor is it to be defiled by sexual promiscuity. Thus, sex was designed (biblically) for the married couple.

well. this is an interesting bunch of notes 🙂 i believe that God won’t give me more than i can handle, i also believe i’ve been given a mind and i can us it to exercise sane birth control. thank you very much. that, of course, would be “sane” in my book 🙂

WTF going way back up thataways^^^ Why is it neither theist nor atheist on this site can go very long w/o anti-semitism? What is it that leads to suspect Jews misinterpeted gods meaning of menstration? Why on earth in “jewy” times (not a state of grace) would anyone be stoned on a sunday as opposed to any other day? Y’all are of the gentile belief the jews were cursed and NOT the favorite of god?

ryn; Interesting set of responses though not really r-ing my n. My N was related to your speaking of the behaviour of the jewish people towards women coming from superstition and distortions of what god said. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. — I repeat,though, wtf? Curious that you’d privatise your responses as well.

Also re this note — Catholics base their canon on the Alexandrian Bible prior to the Hebrew Bible. [unravelled] [p] Are you saying the Alexandrian bible (circa 200 ad) predates the Hebrew bible (Depending on whether you accept oral tradition somewhere betwenn 1500 and 300 BC) Or that the catholics added alexandrian text to their canon before hebraic text?

ryn haredawg : “But I’m not even sure “cursed” was every used in the Bible. That may be a bit of a stretch. Menstruation was considered unclean based on Levitical law.” : Lev Ch 15 v 19-24.

ryn heredawg: Septuagint: the Hebrew bible was based on the Palestinian cannon around 100AD. it excluded the Septuagint based on grounds that no Hebrew texts were found. Proof by omission is really no proof at all (as I’m sure you know). The Alexandrian cannon included the Septuagint based on a highly reliable tradition (I cannot recall the name off hand) which dates it …

ryn heredawg: … closer to the dates you were talking about in your previous notes. I am racking my brain for the correct tradition, but it basically puts the texts in context much before Jesus’ time. Jesus himself quotes from some of these books (i should have a reference).

These notes really have stimulated much discussion. People really should read “Humane Vitae” prior to making any derogatory or uneducated comments. Learn the moral position, then come back with something better than “doesn’t matter what anyone else things, what I think is right for me.” Many people have made some very intelligent notes here too…so I’m not trying to bash anyone in particular.