The Unimpressed Hellbound Brigade

Your statement, “not one of them became a Christian”, is that canon? I’m not disputing your claim exactly, I just find it hard to believe that there is a passage in Matthew to back that up. For instance, while I’m sure Matthew does claim that the soldiers took the bribe and kept quiet, does he also explicitly state that none of these soldiers later changed their minds?

It’s a minor point (above) and I agree with you regarding the issue of the priests continuing to publicly deny the resurrection after receiving strong evidence for it. They did not however have front row seats, they only had an eyewitness account.

“regarding the issue of the priests continuing to publicly deny the resurrection after receiving strong evidence for it. They did not however have front row seats, they only had an eyewitness account.” Right, the soldiers allegedly had front row seats, and that’s who I’m talking about from the red question through the end.

Since the chief priests were Jewish, they already believed in the God of the Old Testament and believed that He would send a messiah to Earth. They certainly believed in the reality or the possibility of miracles (Moses anyone?). All of that alone makes the Pharisees quite different from any atheist living today.

“Matthew does claim that the soldiers took the bribe and kept quiet, does he also explicitly state that none of these soldiers later changed their minds?” First I would say that it would be impossible for a Christian to directly deny the claim. Then, Matthew says, “they took the money and did as they were directed. And this story is still told among the Jews to this day.” Seems to strongly imply that the soldiers took the money, and have been telling the same story ever since. At the very least, the story that I am asked to believe explicitly says that the soldiers who witnessed this miracle ran away, and made up a story about it. The fact that it’s logically possible that this isn’t the whole story doesn’t diminish the fact that the story I’m asked to believe ends here. There also would be a strong motivation to mention that a soldier defected from the story to give the story some much needed added credibility. Beyond the rhetorical advantages of having the non-Christian soldiers that were guarding Jesus’ tomb being Christian, if this were the reality, I would also expect at least one other person to mention it. Mark, Luke, John…Paul,

“I have had atheists tell me that even if Jesus came down and did a miracle right in front of them…they still would not believe and would not worship Him.” – hope0500 Yes, well, the Bible itself seems to suggest that those atheists are right *not* to believe and worship someone just because they claim to be Jesus and can do miracles – “For there shall arise false Christs, and falseprophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” – Matthew 24:24

I often ponder what would constitute proof and the exsitence of something as amazing and incredible as an omnipotent deity and/or its offspring…it would be very hard to prove. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that. HOWEVER – If I saw someone who was clearly dead resurrected and freed from a tomb by an angel I’d be a moron NOT to believe it.

Athiest, does have a point…that in the last days there will be many false Christ. It also mentions that the scoffers will be many as well coming with strange doctrine which WILL deceive many. knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” (2 Peter 3:3-4 ESV) Jesus warned…As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. (Matthew 24:3-5 ESV) Notice before he mentions anything else about his return the first things he speaks of is the false Christ. I don’t think that is coincidence at all. Finally, But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant,

(cont) abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. (2 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV) As for undeniable proof and then later finding out they were wrong. There will come a time when they will answer and the truth will be revealed to them. There will be no need for undeniable proof because it will before their eyes and they will confess Jesus to be the Lord and Christ, not here on Earth but at the Judgement Seat. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Philippians 2:10-11 KJV) Other than that I am not sure of the question. The real Christ is not going to return twice. He came once in the form of a bondservant, but the final return the second coming with be in power and great glory. There is no mention of anything to return to after that.

I think a better way of looking at it is like this: Christians if you saw Mohammed appear before you and declare that Allah is the only god, would you believe it? If not, why do you think atheists should treat something we would regard as virtually identical as different?

ryn: no problem at all, I am honored 🙂 thank you

I will remember you in prayer.