Wonderful…

Shocking..

^Not really. Makes me apprehensive about joining the military though.

I may be wrong on this… But, didn’t David, after becoming the king of Israel, fall victim to his own human, worldly desires? If I remember the History Channel documentary correctly, he became corrupted by his new position of power, and he even sent a man off to die in war just so he could marry the man’s wife…

If I am correct in this, then it really puts the soldiers’ praise of David – a once-good man who allowed himself to be corrupted by power – into an interesting perspective.

I guess I don’t see the problem with people exercising their faith before they go into battle. As I understood it, that was still a freedom American citizens could exercise without having to be lambasted for it. I don’t see anywhere in the article that says attendance was compulsory. That might give me pause, but not this. In regards to David, David repented after his sin, and God forgave.

Whats ironic is that there fighting people who believe theyre fighting for the same God of Abraham… they probably had the same kind of service…

First, DM, David, who was a man after God’s own heart, did indeed fall into sin after he became king. God punished him for that, and David repented later. I think people forget (Christians included) that we’re all human, and whether we’re saved by the blood of Christ or not, we’re still prone to sin. Just because we become Christians doesn’t mean we have the inclination to sin.

We do, however, have the Holy Spirit, Who, if we listen to Him–which is where many fall short, because we still want to do our own thing–can and will prevent us from sinning. Though, like I said, that doesn’t mean we won’t sin. David was still a great man, but he had his faults like the rest of us. The only perfect person is Jesus Christ.

Second, to ex-dis, Jehovah and Allah are not one and the same, not even close. There may be some similarities, but Allah, like all man-made gods, fall short of the One True God. One thing I can think of right now (I’m kind of in a hurry at the moment) is that Allah is just one person, whereas the Christian God is a Trinity–three Persons in One. I will get back to you on this one…if I have time.

“I think people forget… that we’re all human… we’re still prone to sin.” I know. That was actually somewhat part of the point I was trying to make. These soldiers were praising a flawed human – a man who was corrupted by power. And, I assumed that David repented in the end. They probably would have just omitted him from the Bible all together otherwise…

They praise David for his victories in battle, wanting to be victorious themselves. I am just stating that there was a darker side to this man they are looking up to. He became overconfident in all of his triumphs, and he ultimately fell to the temptation of power…

And, just like David, there have already been reports of those who are generally good people who became overconfident and corrupted by power. (e.g. the Abu Ghraib scandal) And, of course, since news of their actions have been made public, I am sure these people have asked for forgivness from all planes of existance…

I only meant to point out that they look up to David for his victories, yet fail to realize that they themselves could very easily fall victim to the very same temptations as David. They praise the good things without cautioning about the bad…

And, in a time when emotions and adrenaline levels are high, when pumped up on positive thoughts, it may seem like they can do no wrong. This mindset can then lead to overconfidence and corruption. I know that the majority of soldiers will not have to worry about this. But, there will always be a few who will fall victim to the temptations of power…

Of course, of these who do become corrupted, I am sure the majority of them will seek forgiveness as soon as their emotions and thought processes return to normal levels. All I am saying is that there may be more similarities between David and these soldiers than they may have been willing to realize. And, I know that being a Christian doesn’t automatically make a person a sinner…

According to religion, we are flawed creatures, therefore we are all sinners – just some more than others. Besides, although I know a lot of corrupted Christians, I also know a lot of Christians who would make excellent role models for the rest of religious society. Hey, Bum… Sorry for leaving a novel in your notes. I’ll jump down off my soap box now. 😉

OB 04, Prove to me that Yahweh wasnt man made…

ex-dis. dont even bother because she’s [butterfly] not worth your time. *snort* Sheesh. where DO these people come from?? Even at my worst, when I was a christian, I would never EVER have come up with this shash. *sigh* *wanders away, annoyed*

Hey ex-dis…how about you do the same thing yourself, and then explain where the universe came from…or was that an accident too? Proof comes in many shapes and sizes and is largely contingent not only on your philosophical underpinings (say, crude empiricism as the only basis for truth), but also on what kind of evidence you will accept to marshal a case. Metaphysical problems abound all over.

metaphysics is for those who are too lazy to learn a real science. Stop guessing and find some proof. Anyone can sit around and contemplate why a raven is like a writing desk….yesh

And bashing metaphysics is for people who are either ignorant of the facts of existence, ignorant of the definition of metaphysics, or need an excuse to support naturalism as a worldview. Ad hominem attacks always work to cross purposes and only cloud the argument. Smugness only breeds contempt.

“Sometimes all you have is god”… and a gun, yeah lets convert the unbelievers!:)

attacking my gramatical and logical lapproach is a silly attempt to cover up the fact that there is no direct or logical proof of metaphysics. Human constructed “world views” only serve those observers. Opinion. a rock is a rock. a cloud a cloud..a bird is not beautiful.it chirps for food and to mate. there is no higher plane of reality nor is there some sort of spiritual plane

through which some sort of energy and lights and guys with wings on thier backs… metaphysics is a cop out..like religion but another stop into the realm of confused langage. Any dolt can twist language around to make it sound spiritual and mystical. Using logical arguments with emotional subject matter just doesnt cut it. sorry stealth. You’re pretty smug yourself.

That’s true, if emotions and metaphysics are the same thing. I don’t think they are even remotely related. Metaphysics is simply the study of the nature of ultimate reality. If there is no spiritual/supernatural, than metaphysics is ultimately naturalism, and there is no need to fear it. Again, I submit ignorance of the definition is the only reason. If you’re against religion, just say so.

Also, the crude empirical method you suggest, Ride, doesn’t begin to explain constructs like justice, right and wrong, or purpose. It is powerless to do those things, so unless you’re a nihilist, you have to do some metaphysical work somewhere. I submit that justice and other abstract constructs like truth are real in some sense, and coming up with tautologies (truth is truth) doesn’t solve it.

Jasmynroez, why don’t you try to attack my argument, rather than me? Perhaps you are no longer a Christian because you could not argue logically and therefore failed to be able to refute the arguments of a secular society? You will have to do better than that to get my goat, darlin.

Metaphysics is a human construct like a video tape or religion. Created to serve a moral or emotional path. Morality then is controlled emotion without excess. We derive a need to justify our controlled emotions as justice and rightousness. Whether it is a real physical thing is left to be determined but arguing human morality and justice is like a fish tryingto rationalize the universe from

rationalize the universe from inside its fish bowl. There is no perspective. We lack an outside perspective. We have God..or many Gods as teachers or objective view points. But do they actually exist? People claim the metaphysical or social science of human behavour guides our belief structure. We toss about words like logic and expect a less emotional answer to be correct in an argument.

I watch you all rant about logic and intelligent arugments. These are all human foibles…human constructs that the universe is not guverned on. The Star gladly rotate, the birds sing, the ants march all without a care about our silly little arugments. They have long before man kind has walked the earth and long after we dissapear. There is so much fear from people like stealth and ATB

they fear the unknown. one searches for answers while the other staves off that search with the same weapons used on both sides. They seeem to forget again..humanism like religion is just replacing God with another type of God. A global humanistic value system. A rights manegement that can become just as corrupt as any religion. The true answer lies not within but without. Think outside your

think outside your silly little box. Think outside this planet. Kinda scary isn’t it? I don’t have the answers nor can i spend my life arguing silly types of arguments that talk about logical relations. ALL all of which are human devices to make ourselves look grand. Take a note from the past. Religion, God, continents, weather, the sun..fleating…soon forgotten. try to enjoy yourselves

I’m going to take a hint from my dog and go roll in the grass. all she does is lick herslef and sniff other dogs butts. Lies around and runs and pretty much doesnt have a care in the world. Sounds like fun.

HEY You use AOL too!!! You must be a satanist!All Aol Users are satanists.

“There is so much fear from people like stealth and ATB they fear the unknown. one searches for answers while the other staves off that search with the same weapons used on both sides.” I don’t think that I fear the unknown – I fear those that think they have figured out the unknown.

I’m with ATB to an extent. I’d also like to point out that that anonymous view espoused above is nothing but nihilism, and the true nihilist has no means by which to declare one thing better than another, so the lambasting that ATB and I get reduces to nonsense, because the post above claims to be nihilistic, and then turns right around and makes an absolutistic truth claim. reductio ad absurdum

I kinda have to agree with you on that one, Stealth…