It is impossible to “Freely choose” to go to Hell

christians believe that people choose to go to hell? i thought g0d just eternally damned you there for not repenting or believing, or you know…you’re still wearing 80’s clothes….

“christians believe that people choose to go to hell? i thought g0d just eternally damned you there for not repenting or believing…” By *inaction* you end up in hell, same with my analogy, if you don’t do anything, the hornets are coming.

How do we know if this information we have recieved is factual?

So….we’re crazy for choosing this hell and so we can’t be held accountable for our crazy actions and thus shouldn’t be forced to hell…because… Um. Divide by five…and…subtract the…

But you CAN do something and still go to hell. No one is saying just because you put the tape on the box, you get a free ticket out of hell. If you put it on the box for the wrong reasons or if, after, putting the tape on the box, you then gorge yourself on the cake (gluttony) you could still be going to hell. And. Stuff.

Hello Bum, Just because he “sits back and let the wasps escape” doesn’t mean he doesn’t have rational decision making abilities. He simply chooses not to act, in spite of the consequences. We do this all the time. We delay paying a bill, we don’t go to the doctor when we should, we don’t get off our butt and exercise, etc. And such decisions are clealy foolish and absurd, rationally speaking.

Huh. Your notion of rational discretion involving free will has to do with selfish best interest. Awful dim view of the nobler aspects of Man, doncha think? The apprentice asks the buddhist monk “If there is a heaven and hell where would you go?” The monk replies “Hell, it’s where I’m needed most.”

I guess there is the implicit notion that I figured Christians must adhere to: That a person who knows what hell is like, say, has spent the past 10 years in hell, and knows what heaven is like, would always agree that hell is the worse place and would never choose hell over heaven, knowing what they *now* do.

I think that I probably would share the cake with the wasps. First I would eat the cake I wanted leave the wasps some and then I would move away to a safe distance. There are always other ways to do things. That is why it is good to listen to how others would handle it. The real thinkers will always find more than the black or white option. See you in Hell. PeaceWriter aka Lazazal aka HW aka

Odd supposition there Bum. The idea, I think, not being sure how to make assumptions, implicit or otherwise, on ones character based on their religious affliation, is that the state of the afterlife is based on moral and ethical actions or the lack thereof. The question is what would drive a person, christian or otherwise, to overtly commit amoral and unethical actions.

You didnt answer my question, how do you know your being told facts? PS Have you seen the Oct issue of Time magazine? What do you think?

You’re misdefining hell. That’s your difficulty here. Hell isn’t eternal torture, it is the den of those who do not choose to spend eternity with God. That IS a choice people can make, and they do in fact make it all the time. The notion of hell you suggest sounds like some strange hybrid between Islam and Hinduism. Christian conceptions of hell aren’t like what you suggest.

this is a really hard question to answer because its not really relevant to christianity. I think i rememner I noted you once years ago and you said you were from a catholic background. Is taht right? Well, chritsianity is the gospel from the bible… denominations like catholicism and uniting and so forth dont actually follow the bible entriely.. they have their own ‘church religion’

To know what christianity is you have to know the bible, not church law. the bible doenst actually say people will burn in hell forever.. the places were it says things like that is actually describing something else. I could go into detail but Id have to write 1000 notes 🙂 God is not stupid and he doesnt think we are either…

To make a long story short, all those who have never believed will eventaully face God and He will give them all a chance to know/learn the truth and live in the kingdom, which will be on earth. Those who refuse to know dont want to live, and yes amazingly there will be many, will remain on the earth and get burnt up by the huge fire that is going to cleanse the earth before the kingdom comes

the only one i believe will burn for eternity is Satan, and he knows it too! The common christianity that is preached by so many churches makes no biblical sence and no logical sence either… so in one way your question seems relevant but in another its irrevelant. 🙂

hell is not a place with firy chasms and little red goat-people runing around with pitchforks…. its a place absent of God. those who don’t believe in God have pushed God away, and are achieving that state. its not impossible to choose- many people have already blinded themselves from the truth. ~

Why do people say they want to go to hell, if a person cannot chose to go to hell, and don’t say they don’t because they do.

Have you seen this link? http://www.thebeastmovie.com

wait a minute, if you don’t act then the hornets coming is inevitable but it’s still a choice “If you shose not to decide you still have made choice, you can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill, I will chose a path thats clear I will chose free will” {and yes I realize how sad it is that I know that song, as young as I am)

“if a person cannot chose to go to hell…” The key here is what is the criteria of a FREE choice.

RYN: First we have to know what is actual knowledge or science and what is a waste of precious time. As for modern doctors, I have little trust in them. They seem to simply bandaid the symptoms. Ideally, when mankind is in line with God’s teachings, disease and other sinful reactions become nonexistant. Seek ye first spiritual life and material well being automatcially follows.

Disease and insurance companies are also considered a sign of bad government. Hellish Kali yuga industrialization is the source of much stress and ultimately disease. So we are in a fix and sometimes take the aid of technology, but to utilize it properly for spreading God consciousness and simpler, agrarian based living. Fight fire with fire, as the saying goes.

You are right. To choose hell requires intoxication, with the material energy.

I didn’t read all the notes, so maybe someone already mentioned this but, I think aardvarks is forgetting that it is just an analogy, so it’s not saying that you actually go to hEll when you don’t put the tape on the box.

Um . . . I love ya and ya know I love ya and not to be mean, but if that was my comeback you get worse with every arguement. you’re brain only gets more conjumbled with time. and why oh why are you never online?

“if you don’t act then the hornets coming is inevitable but it’s still a choice…” Sure, it’s a choice, but what kind of choice. If I say, “Give me your money or I’ll shoot you in the head.” Do you have a choice? Yes, but the pertinent question is, “do you have a free choice?”

You’re still defining hell in the Dantesque sense, which is not the Biblical expression of it, only a caricature informed more by Greek pantheism than Christian orthodoxy. Hell is literally the choice of people who decide against God based on his revelation in it’s multiple forms. In that light this argument becomes circular: you’re arguing you can’t choose a choice.

To quote CS Lewis on this issue, there are exactly two kinds of people. Those who say to God “Your will be done,” and those to whom God says, “Your will be done.” Heaven is the name given to the place where those who choose God get to dwell with him. Hell is simply the opposite of that place–a place where those who deny God are not troubled by him.

“You’re still defining hell in the Dantesque sense” Ok how about this. Is there a person out there who, after 10 years in hell and given knowledge of what heaven is like, if given a second chance would choose to remain in hell?

Most Christains show they do not have free will. They are taught the stories of the bible and refuse to have an open-mind to the possibility that there are mistakes, lies, and contradictions in it. They will look for any possible explanination to explain things away. Nice meeting you..I think I am going to enjoy your diary.

Interesting response to Stealth there bum. Stealth discribes hell as out of the sight of god and you reply with yeah but would someone chose it after ten years. I know you understand what stealth said, you just ignoring it? I mean seriously, how upset are you with being out of the sight of god? Given a choice between heaven and earth, for instance, what would be your choice?

^^^ And please don’t play with that “If I were a christian” shit. You brought up heaven and hell and the hornet and cake analogy. Answer my question please as you, not some stylized notion of what you think a christian is or some stylized notion of what the belief system of this christian everyman is. Actually don’t answer. It’s a setup as sure as this entry was.

Incidentally I had a buddy working on his PhD at U W in zoology. He was diabetic. He would have been much more interested in the hornets than the cake. Come to think of it, I don’t really have a problem with hornets either. It’s a bit like saying a box full of spiders, them what are scared are scared, them what are not are not and would make their choices accordingly.

God is offering every person the most wonderful and ultimate gift. You either choose it or you don’t. By not choosing it, you ARE choosing to reject God, thus choosing to go to hell. You write so harshly against Christains and against God. You must be very hurt. God heals all wounds no matter their size, no matter your past. Choose Him.

what you are not telling us is that the cake is not loved by you. you hate the cake, deny the cake by your actions and would rather be devoured by wasps than submit to a cake that you hate. this is the dilemma- you hate God and do not want to submit. It is a better choice for you to suffer wasps than eat a cake that makes you want to vomit. this is not an argument against God..it is hatred.

that person without a name said, choose him. Erm…but I thought the point was you can’t be punished for choosing “wrong” when you didn’t know what would happen when you chose that “wrong” choice. [JulieCranford]

A little late for this but Determinedgal sounds as if she is describing the catholics purgatory… maybe she should rethink that argument.