10 Reasons to Hate Red Sox Fans…

Before I even read further, I cannot emphasize how true #4 is. Word.

And number 10 also.. I’m a yankee fan and I realize we can be obnoxious, but at least we don’t try to pretend like we’re some gritty underdog scrapping our way to a championship.

Maybe one day the Jays will give you someone to root for rather than reducing yourself to rooting against other teams. By the way, Phillies’ fans (or should I say Philly’s fans) are far more spiteful than any other in the country.

By the way, it always annoys me whenever a team develops a bandwagon, sportswriters act like they are the first team in history to develop one. Around here anyway, there were a ton more Yankees fans in the late 90s than in the late 80s… and a ton fewer Mets fans. There are a lot more Patriots fans now than 7 or 8 years ago… and a lot fewer Lakers and Bulls fans. I mean… come on.

the fact of the matter is that the red sox had a huge fan base before 2004 and if they go the next decade without a championship, they’ll still have a huge fan base. just like the yankees’ fan base didn’t disappear despite not winning a championship this millenium. and by the way, neither yankee nor red sox fans are as obnoxious as maple leaf fans. canada’s team, my arse.

The Jays won 2 series in a row… I tend to agree with the bulk of this post. Sorry popeye. 🙂 As far as the Leafs go, I can’t really say because I don’t know… but historically, the Habs should be Canada’s Team since they have far and away the most championships. But I can’t imagine ANY fans… Yankees, Sox, Leafs… being more obnoxious than fans (not alumni) of the University of Michigan.

RYN: Some of this is just incoherent. It starts by talking about all the bandwagon fans and then immediately jumps into those who claimed for decades that losing builds character and concludes by praising those who’ve been fans for decades. If one’s going to rant, so be it but make up your mind what your rant’s thesis is going to be. If you’ve been a fan for decades then you are

by definition not a bandwagon fan. As for #10, so what? Maybe it’s because I’m a soccer fan and the sport is structured differently, but I’m not going to cry in my beer just because the Sox don’t have 15 guys on their roster who came up via their farm system (the essay conveniently omits the number of Sox-developed players on the 2007 roster). Yes, I’ve said before that Sox fans whine about

Yankee fans too much. But I can say that in a sentence, not an entire article.

I’m gonna attach a rider to the Clemens one…they didn’t offer Boggs a contract either when his expired. So he went to the Yanks. And got a ring. Tee hee!

ryn on popeye about a salary cap: while I agree it would be good to have one, it’s not the yankees that are standing in the way of it. While every now and again you hear a few whispers from the “poor” teams about how unfair it is, they won’t kick up too much of a fuss because they sure do love all the luxury tax money they collect from the yankees high payroll. If I remember correctly..

the only dissenting vote when it came to approving the current luxury tax/financial system in place was from the yankees themselves. If the other teams were really interested in fielding the best team rather than collecting that extra money they could easily outvote the yankees (and possibly the red sox) or any other teams who would be opposed to a salary cap.

CODY: Please, this is Red Sox bashing, not rest of the league bashing. Don’t trouble a good rant with facts. “teams like Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa would have to spend at least $120 million just to complete” So how is it that Baltimore and Toronto once used to make the playoffs on a regular basis? How is it that the Rockies made the World Series with a payroll of something like $40 million?

How is it that the Cardinals and White Sox won the previous two World Series with payrolls of WELL below $120 million? Tampa and Baltimore suck because they are poorly run. Toronto is decently run but they lack depth to survive the 162 game grind. Personally, I’ve never favored a salary cap in any sport, even in the NHL where my Bruins are far too cheap to approach any cap anyway.

Popeye: The answer to your questions are all the same, all those teams made it cause they are NOT in the AL East. If the same World Champ Cardinals from last year were in the American League, they wouldn’t have even gotten the Wild Card, let alone won any divisions… To answer why Toronto and Baltimore were able to compete a while back is because that’s the time when all the teams in the AL East were spending the same amount of money on their rosters. When it was an even playing field, everyone had a chance. Now with NY spending $180-$200 Mill and Boston spending $167 Mill… it’s not even, and won’t be until MLB finally brings in a hard salary cap to reign those crazy teams in. Salary caps help keep teams on an even playing level… and would stop teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox from stacking the deck and buying their championships. I’m also favor a salary cap minimum to prevent teams from shortchanging their fans with sub-par teams. The NBA has one in place and is the reason why all teams have good rosters and there are no teams like the Florida Marlins in their ranks…

For what it’s worth, MLS has had a hard salary cap for its entire history. DC United still won 4 of the first 9 championships. Why? Because they are simply a better run organization than the others. The Yankees were defeated by the Indians this year (payroll $61). The previous two years, the Yanks were eliminated by the Tigers and Angels, payrolls in the neighborhood of $80M. Baltimore’s 2007

payroll? $95M. Toronto’s 2007 payroll? $80M. This year, Toronto was a respectable 17-19 vs the Yanks and Red Sox… which means they were a mediocre 66-60 against teams that spent “sanely.” That put them at a .523 winning percentage against the non-big spenders, which was still gave them a worse record than any team that made the playoffs. Baltimore was a pathetic 54-72 against teams other

than the Yanks and the Sox. So Toronto was actually competitive in head to head games against those two teams despite this supposedly insurmountable pay gap. It was against teams with comparable payrolls that they were unable to be overly successful. Your assertion that Toronto and Baltimore would be contenders if not for the evil big spenders is not held up by reality.

Popeye: Those are Cheap words coming from the fan of the team that buys their friggin’ championships. When the shoe was on the other foot, Red Sox fans were first in line to whine and cry when the Yankees did it, now you guys are all f**king hypocrites for basking in the same ‘glory’. Both wins are nothing more than a cheap, undeserved wins cause you guys did it the same way the evil empiredid it. Three teams in the AL East are getting seriously jipped over the last decade because the other two teams are spending a total of almost four hundred million on their rosters! That’s close to half a billion, and you think that’s fair? That kind of spending is a fix, and as far as I’m concerned the Sox and the Yanks deserve to be handcuffed by a salary cap so they can’t buy championships and cheat other teams of their right to compete. You can’t argue against this cause I’m sure when the Yanks were buying their championships in the late 90’s… you and the rest of the Sox fans were saying the same damn thing.

I see what popeye is saying. The Jays managed to step it up against the Sox/Yanks, but couldn’t get it done against the rest of the league. I don’t think money always buys success, but it does seem to buy you a spot in the playoffs. In the playoffs, though, all bets are off. A team can get hot (Tigers in ’06, Tribe in ’07) and take out a team like NY loaded with superstars. Chemistry and…

…streakiness go a long way. I also think that both the Sox and Yanks spend so much that it almost makes it unfair though. Spending that much money doesn’t guarantee titles, but it sure does give you a better shot. It does make it nearly impossible for a team like Toronto to make the playoffs because so often, NY/Boston both get in. Plus, they’re such major markets that it gives them…

…another advantage. It certainly stopped the Red Wings from being able to buy the whole league in the NHL. If there were no salary cap, you can bet Peter Forsberg would have been in Detroit. A salary cap would stop things from basically being rigged like they are in college athletics. I think MLB needs one, and that the Jays/Orioles/Rays have a legitimate complaint. Although that’s…

…leaving out any discussion of their GMs, personnel, and demographic.

pherific: I will be the first to agree that the Jays have mangement issues, to the point where I am even willing to admit that the Jays are one good manager from being able to make the AL East that much tighter. But both Boston and NY are running off budgets that are double of what the Jays spent, and last year when the season started, the US dollar was 15 cents ahead of the Canadiandollar… so that $80 Mill US budget actually cost the Jays closer to a $100 Mill, another thing the Jays had to fight besides other team’s overspending. While every team has areas they can work on, no one can deny that having more than $80 – $120 Million more to spend makes a significant difference…

RYN: Peter, you’re full of sh*t. And the fact that you counter statistical facts with cheap generalizations illustrates this. Regardless of what you are “sure” about, I was NOT decrying the Yankees for buying championships in the 90s. You didn’t know me back then but that doesn’t stop you from assuming whatever is necessary to “prove” your point.

I know people don’t like it when facts interfere with their impressions but… 3 of the 8 teams who made the playoffs this year were from the bottom half of the league in terms of payroll. 9 of the top 13 teams in payroll missed the playoffs. I’m sure this will be met with another irrelevant rant about what some other fans supposedly did a decade ago. Listen, I’m sorry your team sucks.

Oops cut and paste error… My favorite hockey team has sucked for a decade. It’s annoying. It’s frustrating. It’s demoralizing. But the fact that my favorite hockey team has sucked for a decade is the fault of its inept management. It’s not the fault of the fact that NHL had no salary cap for most of that team. It’s not the fault of the NHL. It’s not the fault of the Canadiens, Sabres, (above)

But at least I have the grace to blame the Bruins’ woes on their real cause, even if it’s unpleasant to admit.

Actually, just forget I said anything. You’ve been reduced to the exact same things you accuse Red Sox fans of doing: acting with no class and whining about teams buying championships. It’s obviously pointless to continue with someone reduced to speculating about what he’s “sure” I “must” have been saying 7 years before he even knew me.

Popeye: Actually since you did start, I’m going to say your example of the Bruins is a poor choice. The Jays have been trying, and they never tossed in the towel and took free luxary tax money like Tampa Bay have the last decade. Last year the Jays actually finished with a better record that teams in other divisons that made the playoffs. To make it more of an embarssament for MLB,they had a better record than St.Louis last year, how is that for playing on an uneven field. The teams in the AL East have to climb Mount Everest to make the post-season while all teams like St. Louis and the Cubs have to do is just break .500 This is what the bloated payrolls of the Sox and the Yanks does… making it impossible to make the playoffs regardless of what a team’s record is. If you think that’s fair play… then your loyality to the Sox is as blind as I think it is.

As for the NHL, I was the first to complain about the obscene spending of the Rangers and the Red Wings… and YES, the Toronto Maple Leafs. Right now the Leafs are handcuffed and struggling and can’t buy their way into the playoffs. They’re being forced to work the farm system and draft their way into the posteseason like everyone else. Even though I’m a fan of the Leafs, I’m willing to be patient with that because I’ve always supported the idea of a Salary Cap to even the playing field for all the teams. The Rangers, Lakers, Celtics, Avalanche, Red Wings and especially the Yankees and Red Sox are living proof that caps are necessary in all sports… not just baseball.

For one thing, I never pretended that $180 million didn’t make a difference. What I objected to was the assertion that big spending guarantees you a playoff spot and small spending guaranteed you oblivion. Yes, the Jays finished with a better record than St Louis last year. So did several other teams as well. If you want to argue that the MLB playoff structure should be revamped, I completely

agree with you. I think it’s a joke that a team can finish with the 12th best record out of 30 and be crowned “world champions.” I say scrap all the divisions and just let the top four teams make the playoffs. Though that wouldn’t have helped the Jays last year so I suspect that’s not what you want to hear. Though strangely enough, the Jays finished ahead of the Sox last year despite

the supposedly prohibitive influence of money. However changing the structure of the playoffs, which I completely agree with, has nothing to do with the Red Sox or the Yankees or the salary cap.

I’m not a blind Sox fan. I was happy they won the World Series this year but did you see me post a single entry even acknowledging this victory, let alone rubbing it in? No you didn’t. I’m not a blind fan of any team. I just see through b.s. This is the same boring, formulaic b.s. I heard from Sox fans about Yankees for years. I annoyed me when they did it. And it’s no different when you do it.

Popeye: I’m all for revamping the playoff system. Teams that finish 12th should be allowed to skip past half a dozen teams with better records to make the playoffs. I’m all for revamping the system AND putting a salary cap in place. I think both would be best for baseball. I’ve been calling for both for a very, very long time. The luxary tax clearly doesn’t work. What levels do payrolls need to swell up to before you admit there’s a problem? 300 Million? What about 400? How high does it have to get before you think it’s unfair?

Of course what you’re really mad about is not baseball’s payroll in general but the fact that the Jays aren’t good enough to win the AL East. So it’s really a problem for 3 teams, not 28 as you make it out. I look at the numbers and I see the 26th highest payroll (out of 30) winning the division, the 25th highest winning one pennant and the 24th highest nearly winning the other.

I look at the last 8 years and see 7 different World Champions. I look at the last 14 pennant winners from both leagues and see 12 different teams And I’m supposed see these facts and think there’s a competitivity crisis? Oh wait, I forgot, you’re really only talking about the Jays, not about MLB as a whole. We need to revamp MLB because one team can’t get it done.

Popeye: Look at the last twleve AL East Division winners retard. As a matter of fact look up the last twenty and you’ll see the #1 paid team ever year. How’s that for a problem? The same people who try to deny a cap keep going back to the same ‘different champs’ argument. Money doesn’t guarentee championships, but it pretty much almost guarentees spot in the playoffs and from thereit’s a crap shoot. Denying that money doesn’t help is stupid and the more you deny that it makes a difference, the more moroic you look… And if you don’t think that fans in Tampa and Baltimore aren’t saying the same thing, you are as blind in your loyality as you look.

It’s funny that you think two teams are taking advantage of the Divison/wild card system is okie dokie. If it was your team getting screwed out of it, you’d harp. You claim to be all for changing the playoffs, but make zero suggestions cause you’re all for the quo since it’s your team enjoying the glory. You instead stick your head in the sand and hide behind the free market excuse like a coward.<P> I’m for stuff like Salary caps cause it makes for good sports for all teams, not just two teams. Fans around the league deserve to watch their teams compete for an equal chance right out of the gate… not watch the same two teams attempt to take the same division all the time. The other leagues don’t have this problem anymore, and I think you know why. Do you hear me whining about the Leafs and their inability to spend all the money they want? No, because the NHL is better for it. So would baseball if such a cap would be put in place. Such a shame you don’t think so…

ryn: i’d be fine with a salary cap, but as I said.. to blame the yankees or the sox for the lack of one is missing the point. If the poor teams wanted a salary cap it would be quite easy to get one, clearly they don’t want it. That is hardly the fault of the yanks/sox/angels/other “rich” teams.

Look at the way that Curt Schilling is (potentially) leaving Boston, look at how Roger Clemens did, that’s why people can’t stand them. By the way, because of parents from different regions I split my loyalty between Philly and Boston: I’m an Eagles, Phillies, Flyers, Red Sox, and Celtics fan (the Red Sox/ Phillies dual loyalty is acceptable because I began rooting before interleague play)

Also, the “coming up through the system” argument is ridiculous. Teams ALWAYS trade prospects. As for the 2007 team? Dustin Pedroia, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jonathon Papelbon, and Jason Varitek are all Boston products. Mike Lowell was a contract dump by the Marlins, and David Ortiz was taken on a flyer from the Minnesota Twins.