Spare the Child, but check for wear annually

In which our Hero agrees that sparing the rod has value, but mostly because how do you spank if the rod is broken

Can’t think of what to write about so instead I’m going to answer a question I got: How would you discipline a child?

First of all, I will say that this is necessarily theoretical. I’ve never had primary responsibility for disciplining children, nor were they mine. I know that it’s a lot harder when they’re yours, and I know it’s a lot harder to be consistent when you’re second guessing yourself and dealing with your own emotions.

So if you are a parent, Gentle Reader, and I say something that sounds either outright stupid, or else possibly seems like I’m disrespecting a technique or policy that’s worked for you, please accept my apology in advance.

That said, I have a fairly simple philosophy, which is to be consistent. Tiny kids are logic engines and the simpler the logic, the easier it is for them to figure out the rules. I know that’s optimistic, and that life will run rampant over that. Visitors, grandparents, colds, or heck random moments of history will make me make exceptions. Or just pity for a sad sniffling baby.

Still, as much as possible, I’ve tried to manage kids with a very light touch. As few rules as possible, but those rules are non negotiable. No play that risks injury or death to self or others. No touching grown up things till you’re old enough (And no leaving the important things out where a baby can get to them easily or else you’re kind of setting them up to fail).

I was spanked, so while I understand the modern distaste for it, I also feel it’s appropriate at younger ages. I’m not sure that I’d be able to pull of the kind of sneaky-bastardness that my dad pulled with me, but I think it’s worth as much effort as a parent’s exhausted strength can manage to try to establish the boundaries early.

Actually more than that, and I don’t know how this will be received by parents with actual experience on the pointy end, but I think that a small child, lets say under 4 years old, is functionally an animal, and should be in many regards trained that way. Establish dominance, use behavioural conditioning and tactically avoid situations that create opportunities for challenges. (I know, it’s not going to be as easy as teaching a dog to sit, but frankly if you ever listen to how Cesar whatsface the dog whisperer talks about interactions with the dogs, I think there some real statements on how to interact with people in general)

I do realize that some kids are pretty close to immovable objects. There have been a few that have been true terrors and completely uncontrollable. And the only answer I’ve got to that is to try to contain the storm but otherwise not engage till someone’s home again. It’s not a good solution at all. But it’s the best I’ve got. Anyway.

As they get older, my hesitant plan for discipline breaks down. I’m not sure when to stop spanking, but I do think there’s a point to stop. My parents stopped when I was probably 10 or so. My dad just told me he was disappointed, and I still remember that it hit way harder than the spankings ever did.

One thing I stumbled on very early, and makes me kind of hope for more than one kid is that I served bulk justice. If one cousin misbehaved, everybody lost privileges. That was remarkably effective because it basically made the kids police each other, and seemed to make the guilty party anxious not to get in trouble with the others. I know it doesn’t always work, but I lucked out.

I had a lot of freedom as a child and also odd responsibilities, and that’s something I would continue. I think the sense of responsibility and capability in being able to feed myself and cook and help with the family dinner and such actually had an affect on how I responded to my parents. (Plus I was the only kid I knew who had the “chore” of creeping out in the winter morning while my dad was getting dressed for work to start his car so it’d be warmed up by the time he was ready to leave. Farm kids will laugh at me, but for a city kid, this was awesome)

Likewise, I think that the two things that have made me successful with children is that I tend to treat them seriously, even when I’m laughing at their precociousness. And I don’t generally need them to like me, which inadvertently lets them decide they’re comfortable with me.

Not really disciplinary directly, but I think it’s relevant as structural information. I’m not sure what else I can say. I’d like to investigate incentives. I keep thinking about what I could have accomplished if I’d worked for school like I work for work.

I’m not sure how to take it past that point. I mean, how would I deal with a slacker child, or a kid who insisted on getting lost in drugs? Hell, I was a slacker child indifferently participating in school just enough to minimize how much my parents and teachers hassled me. I’m not sure.

Summing up: Okay with spanking. Try early to embed the vague suspicion that you *could* get angry enough to kill them and are smart enough to not get caught. Respect them as people, even when you’re bossing them around. Raises are expensive, titles are cheap.

Okay. So this one was probably pretty dull. Sorry.

 

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I was also spanked when I was a kid, and you know what? I turned out okay. I don’t think it’s as terrible or as traumatizing as people make it out to be.

Also, like you said, you can’t really reason with a 3 year old…so sometimes spanking is the only way you can make them understand that they’ve done something wrong.

You said Cesar and I said Chavez…Chavez…Chavez…Milan! My guess is that the hardest part about disciplining a child is controlling your own emotions, like you said. And the key to spanking may be to only do it when they’re young enough to not remember it later!

but frankly if you ever listen to how Cesar whatsface the dog whisperer talks about interactions with the dogs, I think there some real statements on how to interact with people in general) interesting- as a large portion of dog ‘experts’ (vets, trainers, groomers, experienced dog ‘owners’) consider his methods cruel and unwise. i’ll make this anon and private as i amnot starting an argument, just saying.

In Sweden it’s illegal to discipline a child by spanking (or use any form of physical punishment) – a food for thought. Also – having been spanked as a child I would never put my children through that – not ever. And I think young kids are driven by emotion, not logic and that needs to be on top of the parents mind when dealing with them. Interesting read! =)

April 14, 2012

I’m just waking up to see my 17 yo off to a band competition, so I’m probably not as coherent a I should be. While I don’t disagree that children are impulse driven and unable to think critically or form projections, I wholly believe that physical dominance is the easiest mistake adults make. The same affect can be achieved without ever physically injuring (no matter how gentle the spank). And as they age, I find it

April 14, 2012

And as they age, I find it ridiculous that any adult would discipline a kid for biting, hitting, or pulling hair- if physical reaction is standard in their home. Consistency has to mean having similar rules and respects for kids. YMMV, of course. 😉

I agree consistency is key. Children under six use little logic, lots of emotion and are highly reactive. The poem “Children Learn What They Live” is a good resource. Positive things I learned parenting were consistency, admitting I was wrong, each day is a new situation, never use physical “discipline”, beware of food, encourage & expect greatness, when children are difficult put them in water.

Your paragraph about Cesar Milan is pretty accurate. Establishing dominance is important lest you get a raging monster. Putting “the fear of God” into a mid-aged child with ‘The Look’ is a powerful tool. The merit system is useless until they are teens and want an iPod, designer jeans or a new car. Working for what you want teaches independence also.

April 14, 2012

I think there’s a huge gap between spanking and a swat on the hiney, both of which would count as corporal. So help me, I swat the Doom every time I catch him in the dog food and water. He knows darn good and well he’s not supposed to be playing in it and does it anyway. WITH GLEE. How’s Tasers for Tots coming again???

we used ‘parking’. used to put her on the steps for time outs that lasted as old as she was..i.e. age two=two minutes, age four=four minutes, etc. then i used to count her down 1-2-3 and told her she didn’t want me to get to three..her father used 1 1/2, 2 1/2’s as i recall. most of it was rarely used, but when she was ten i tried counting her down and when i got to 3, she rapidly said: 45678910!! that’s when we knew *that* strategy was dead in the water lol and even now when she says something and i respond with a drawn out “onnnne….” she’ll start LOL’ing at me

You would be a good parent. I find nothing off-putting or offensive about what you have written. It’s not dull at all–it’s fascinating to hear what a person who isn’t a parent (yet?) has to say about childrearing. They always have a pretty clear head about things. Trouble is, once you’re exhausted, it’s all out the window and you’re flying by the seat of your pants. LOL As for spanking, we never had to spank Alana, but we did have to spank Kelan. Only, for us, it was one firm smack on the behind, not repeated strikes like me mum did to C and me. I think the only time I’ve ever hit to hurt was when Kelan ran away from me and nearly into the street. He needed to be afraid right then. I feel that spanking instead of anything else creates fear, not lessons, so we decided to only use them for dangerous non-compliance. Otherwise, there are other ways to get to a misbehaving kid. 🙂 KT

They used to say there were three times it was acceptable to spank: when a child put himself (or others) in danger (running into the street comes to mind) when the child puts property in danger and the third was more subjective… i think it was when you as the parent just couldn’t deal with the behavior anymore. That said, by the time kids are old enough to understand mom/dad’s “look” or “voice” or appreciate a good time out.. spanking is no longer appropriate. My kids never did find out what happened if i got to “5”… but i know i was lucky. I was spanked, whether i needed it or not, and my dad did it with a leather belt. He was a mean man though, and only got the respect of his children by making us afraid of him. Thank goodness i didn’t inherit that trait.

April 15, 2012

Actually, I’m taking notes.

April 15, 2012

if only the rule PRIOR to disciplining a child was take a breath, then a deeper breath, stop, think then…. BREATHE Often children are punished in the heat of the moment

April 16, 2012

It’s illegal in my fair state to spank children, though parents still do. Personally – and I’m not a parent – I have no issue with a swat on the behind and then removing the child to a place/situation where they can sort of “reset” whatever devilry they were into and carry on with being a child.

April 16, 2012

I developed the Mother Death Stare very early with my girls and it’s still effective today (and they’re 23 & 27). I wasn’t much of a spanker, but I did, on occasion, swat their tender fannies to emphasize my point.